Setting a routine- trouble early waking

[Aking]

Hi there. My LO will be three months on June 23. Is it too early to see a routine that he is setting on his own? I feel like his sleep is all over the place. He really is an angel baby (ask me again when I kick the pacifier). His schedule looks something like this:

E- 6am
A- 615-7
S- 7-830 but often wakes at 20-45 mark somewhere in there. Have to put pacifier back in and he will go back to sleep
Y
(Awake 830-9)

E-9am
A-915-1015
S 1015-usually a 45 nap as we are on the go with my toddler. Sometimes he will get more dependig on what we are doing)
Y

E-12
A1215-115
S-115-4 usually again a wake in between but sometimes not
Y

E-4
A-415-515
S-515 --- I have to wake him here because he would go into his nighttime sleep often. Some days not but other days he is in a deep sleep until next feed
So I wake him by 6 latest

E usually around 630
A bath
S 730-1030 (sometimes he will wake at 1130

Night wakings -1030, 130, 430, then always awake from 5-6 struggling with tummy I think. He never gets a good solid sleep and then he seems to wake by 6am but not fully. His nights aren't always set so the timing changes and therefore his bedtime and awake for morning seem all mixed up. He's not seeming to do a 12 hour schedule at night.
I've tried to not wake him at the 6pm mark and the same thing happens except he seems to wake fully at 5am
Ideally I would like a 730-730 or 7-7 schedule. I'm not sure how to fix his nights. Plus he really isn't doing longer than 3 hours. My friends baby is sleeping trough the night at 4 months! But she did a cry it out method with him.

[jessmum46]

Hi and hugs, LO is still very little but hopefully we can help! 

about the CIO with a four month old, that's so sad and even the original researchers who recommend CIO suggest it shouldn't be used until at least 6 months of age. We can certainly support you with much gentler methods

First thing it's really important to try not to compare. STTN is something different babies achieve at different times, and really only refers to a 5/6 hour stretch at this age.  Babies of 3 months almost all need to eat overnight, likely twice or even three times in a 12h night.  You don't say if you are breastfeeding or bottle feeding?

Not all babies will do a 12h night.  Anything over 10.5-11 is actually pretty good.  I notice in your day you have one rather long A time after the 45 minute nap, but it looks like LO makes up for that with a long afternoon nap. I wonder about maybe trying to have that nap slightly earlier, wake at 2h allowing enough time for a catnap and a slightly earlier bedtime of say 7pm?

Have you started working on independent sleep yet or does LO need help to settle?

[Aking]

Yes I tried to mark down what I did with him yesterday but it's often a lot of short naps because we are on the go with my toddler. I feel badly but can't keep my boy at home all day either.
He is not sleeping independently.
I swaddle him and he uses a pacifier though does fall to sleep in his bed awake. He won't do it without his soother within crying for several minutes. I tried shh pat and that just stimulates him too much.
I usually just pop his soother back in until he falls asleep but then at the 20 min mark or 45 mark he wakes and can't settle himself.
But he is waking every night at 5 am and I can't get him to sleep through that!
And his schedule seems quite erratic as for naps and a bedtime routine.
Thanks for your help

[jessmum46]

Independent sleep will help, this age is a good time to start working towards that . Will he settle back down at 5am if you feed?

[Aking]

Ok so now he's not waking all the time at 5am. His schedule differs and I find I am having trouble setting a good routine. he seems to be doing a four hour easy already at only just 3 months. He isn't hungry until the 4 hour mark. His naps are often broken. So he will sleep for 30-45 and then fuss and I have to go and try to settle. Sometimes he will go right back to sleep and sometimes I have to take him out of the crib For 15 and then he will go back down. He is settling with the soother.

However the routine is weird because of the morning. So often what happens is my feed doesn't match up with the wake up time.
For example. If my night looks like this:
Feed 630, bed 730
Feed 1130, 330, and semi-awake with eyes closed from 530-6 fussing, ppiping etc, then awake fully at 630. He's not ready to feed until 730 which is an hour later from when he wakes meaning he is often awake too long.
Or if I bump his feed up to 3 hours he's not really hungry and gets an upset stomach.
How can I correct this?
Thanks
Ali

[jessmum46]

Hi and sorry, I've been away from the boards quite a lot this week as just gone back to work.  How are things going?  Did you want to post your daytime routine?

[Aking]

Hi Katherine.
My routine is all over the place as my LO doesn't seem to have a set wake up time. For example, this is what today and last night looked like
Asleep for night at 8pm
Woke to feed at:
E-12
E-330
E-7

But he was awake in his crib at 6am not fussing but awake sucking on fingers etc
Then around 620 he pooped and got rid of all his gas from the night (which he usually does between 5-6am). Then I changed him and put him back to bed but he didn't really settle and I got him out id bed to start his day at 7am
E-7
A-745
S- he is in his crib now because he tires by 730 as he's been up so long before
This is where my day is a bit mixed up.

S, usually for 45 then wakes and needs soothing back to sleep

E-1030-11ish
A-12-1215
S-usually wakes at some point and needs soother but will go back to sleep usually for an hour and half

E-3ish
A- 415
S-415-5ish
Y
It's here that he's then not ready to feed yet but gets tired before he gets there. I either have to put him down for a nap too late at 6 again.  Or feed early.

If he goes down at 6 he often gets into his nighttime sleep but then will have wake ups after his next feed. Especially because at these times I don't have a bedtime routine.

Often my night works differently if he sleeps longer and a feed is pushed or if his morning poop wake up is 5am and then he sleeps longer.

I feel like it's all a mess because the bedtime is different too. I have a three year old so his naps are often on te go and shortened. I try to shoot for two crib naps a day. One in the early morning and one mid day.

I thought I may have to try to get him on a 6-6 schedule. But if he wakes at 5am struggling with his tummy then it's the same issue. That he's up for the hour before feeding and so tired so early after feed. Sometimes he will miss a log nap an then fall asleep feeding etc so it's totally a mess.

He is solely Breast fed and uses a soother to fall to sleep. When he wakes at 45 mark or 30 mark I usually have to reapply soother but he will fall back to sleep.
Thanks