17 months and sleep is a mess

[Elisanah]

Hi, a few posts touch on some of these issues but none are quite the same so I hope you don't mind me posting as well! I would just really appreciate any ideas on where to go from here!
The last two months have been really difficult regarding sleep. Initially it seemed down to a developmental phase as it started when dd learnt to sit up from lying down. However she then had a really bad bout of teething, I stopped feeding during the night, she was then poorly...there was basically always something! I think underlying all of this is probably a need to change her routine but it's been so over the place that I don't know where to start!

The main issues now are that she's reverted back to wanting us in the bedroom until she's asleep, it's taking upwards of 40 minutes for her to go sleep and that she is waking so early (this morning was 3am).

We've done sleep training before but I'm just not sure how to approach it now she's older. Gradual retreat is fine until I get near to the door. She screams if we leave the room but I think that it could be taking her longer to go to sleep (or not go back to sleep in the early morning) precisely because we're in the room. She's sometimes chatty and stands up but, more often than not, she lies there quietly as long as we're in the room - she seems to struggle to go into a deep sleep.

She still often has two naps because of waking so early, 1st nap is around 9.30 (for 10 mins) and 2nd nap is around 1.30(1-2hours). If we're out in the morning then she'll just have one nap. It doesn't seem to make any difference to her wake up time  I wonder whether the time of the first nap could be contributing to EW but if she sleeps later she either resists her 2nd nap or theres too short A time before bedtime. I feel like we possibly go between being undertired and overtired...although she could be majorly overtired from how long she's been sleeping poorly.

I'm going to get a lamp on a timer to try to help her learn when it's okay to wake up... But I'd love any thoughts on her routine and techniques to get her settling independently again.

My HV was adamant I needed to stop feeding (it has helped reduce how often she wakes in the night but the EW started after I stopped) and leave her to cry for learning to go to sleep. I just want to avoid controlled crying if possible but Gradual retreat doesn't seem to be working this time though. My HV also said that 7pm was too late a BT for this age and 5am WU are perfectly acceptable...what do you think? Before this all started dd was going down really well at 7-7.30pm and waking up somewhere between 6-7am. This was with 1-2 night wakings. I also felt like she was beginning to be ready to transition to 1nap as she was starting to resist am nap.

Sorry for how long this is, I just feel clueless as where to go from here so any thoughts would be really appreciated!

[Elisanah]

It's probably worth adding that her room is completely blacked out, I've tried different bedding in case she's hot or cold, water in case she's thirsty etc. She did initially go to sleep in our bed if she wouldn't settle in her cot (in the morning) but she now just thinks it's great fun and time to chat!

The only thing is that I do tend to put the TV on first thing when she wakes so early in order for me to doze a little longer. I don't think this is an issue for mornings like today because she does seem to try to go to sleep but there are some mornings when she just wants to go downstairs...thinking I probably need to hold off on the TV in case that's contributing?

[jessmum46]

Hi, and sorry to hear you've been having such a tough time with sleep recently. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head and that this is, in part, a routine issue.  I would suggest moving her fully to one nap, not allowing that little catnap but moving her one nap of the day to around 11.30/12.  I would imagine it would take a good few days to a week to start seeing any sort of consistent change in her WU time or bedtime antics, and I also imagine you may need to deliberate avoid car/pushchair rides at a time she may be likely to doze off. 

The lamp on a timer is a great idea   You do need to be totally consistent with it though, and set it at a realistic time to begin with.  For example if she is always awake at 5am, setting the light for 7am is just never going to work.  I would set it initially for 5.10/15am and then gradually move it later as she gets the hang of it.  I agree I would get rid of TV in the morning, I know it's so hard when you are tired though

FWIW I don't think much to your HV's advice  With the greatest of respect for what they do (I work in health so do know!) they are not sleep experts and many have not been trained in or even aware of other methodologies besides CC/CIO, which we categorically do not support here.  Equally I think 7pm is a totally reasonable bedtime (my 2 have almost always gone to bed at 6.30-7pm) and 5am is not ok!!!!!  That said bedtime may need to be a touch earlier on one nap for a while until she adjusts - I think we went to 6-6.30pm for a while after each nap transition.

In terms of sleep training it may be that sorting the routine helps significantly with the messing around   If you don't find it totally fixes things though you could try WIWO (walk in, walk out) as long as she has previously been an independent sleeper ie able to go to sleep on her own without help or your presence.  Basically you put her in bed, say good night and leave.  If she cries just pause for a second outside, long enough to determine whether it is a protest or a real 'I need you' kind of cry.  If she needs you, you go back in, repeat your sleep phrase and leave again.  Repeat repeat repeat until she goes to sleep.  You can also offer verbal reassurance from outside the door if you find that helps. The key difference between this and CC/CIO (and it's an important one) is that you go in based on her need for you, not because any clock or timer says so.  This way she learns that you will continue to respond to her and be there for her, but gives her confidence to know she will be able to sleep on her own.

Thoughts?

[Elisanah]

Thank you, that's really helpful! It's nice to know you also thought the same as me about the hv's advice - i drive my husband mad because I call them up to ask for advice and then tend to disagree with whatever they say! 

I wondered whether I needed to go to one nap but was worried about her getting overtired - it's good to hear you think that could help. Would you say 11.30 is the earliest I should put her down?

I think WIWO could be the way forward for us as she did previously go to sleep by herself. The only thing is that she has a massive protest cry/scream when I leave - so do I still go in for that? She just seems to escalate so I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable holding off going in. The other question is about when I go into the room- do I wait for her to calm down or simply say the sleep phrase and leave regardless of whether she's still upset?

I think I'll do as you say - see how changing the routine affects things and then do WIWO if needed.

Thank you so much!

[jessmum46]

I think 11.30 is a good time to aim for - just because if she short naps (very common in the early stages) then it is a LONG time to a reasonable bedtime!  But you can always make use of super-EBT once or twice if it all goes horribly    It's a rough transition when you've got a LO who is already early waking but it may be a case of grit your teeth, push through the (inevitable) OT and hopefully it will be much better on the other side! 

I did WIWO at a younger age with DD and she would also scream hugely as soon as I started to leave.  However, I found if I paused outside literally just enough time to count to 10, I'd often find that scream would start to calm.  If it didn't or I felt it was ramping up again, then I'd go in.  Basically if I wasn't sure I went in - figured I'd never regret giving more reassurance but I'd be mortified if I left her to cry alone  

I think the thing about them calming in the room is a judgement call.  I know with mine that sometimes during the day they are crying about something or other but if someone mentions ice-cream the tears would dry instantly Do you know the kind of cry I mean?  That kind of cry is, I feel, more of a protest and therefore I wouldn't strongly feel that I would want or need that to stop entirely before leaving.  On the other hand sometimes they can get so worked up that they are in no way in any state to learn anything - just beyond the point of being able to calm themselves.  In that case I'd give yourself a good dollop of patience and offer all the reassurance you need.  You know your child better than anyone else, if you feel they need you, they probably do. 

[Elisanah]

Thank you, that's really helpful! When we've done sleep training in the past dd has had a good protest the first night but then accepted it pretty quickly... Hopefully it'll be the same this time 

Thanks again!