3wo baby fall asleep after 8mins breastfedding

[TuntunsMommy]

Hi all. Exercising EASY is quite tough for my 3wo boy as he barely has the A after feeding; he always falls asleep after around 8-10 mins breastfeeding (his eyes opens only gor couple mins when the feeding starts and then gradually close close while still sucking and swallowing) despite of my struggles to keep him up. He wakes up after every 2 hours sleep for another feed. He's totally wide awake for some certain times of the day: i.e 6.30 to 8am and 5pm - 7pm (though I know the theory of over tiredness after 1h20m waking).
Is it normal for a baby at that age? I am seeking for your comments/suggestions on how to start EASY routine with my DS. Thank you!

[Martini~]

In general it's normal:) and in general you should try increasing very very slowly his A during day. The idea is that if he goes totally by himself he may start to be awake at 9-11pm:) and you wouldn't like that for sure:).
But it's also normal that not every A time is equal.

I wouldn't stress if he is fine and sleeps well and gains weight well but you can slowly slowly encourage him to slightly more equal activities.

[TuntunsMommy]

Great thanks for your advice and encouragement, Martini (:big hug:). I still have few more concerns regarding my DS would look for your advice:
1. Is 8mins nursing enough for the baby? I'm afraid he just gets very little hind milk after the foremilk.
2. When we have A in between, he always cries for feeding to sleep. Do you have any advice as 4S barely works for us as:
a. the weather is crazy hot here so swaddle is not applicable
b. I tried the sh-pat with his chin on my shoulder but he resists by arching his back and leg & crying
c. When i try to lay him down after around 10-15mins sleep, he seems unrest with legs and hands hover (maybe cause of no-swaddle) then wake up
3. Does 3-4 hours straight awake affect his growth or just cause overtired?
4. He is a snacker and he also wakes up every 2hrs at night. Will and how the EASY routine solve this both? Should I use a paci?
Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor vocab and confusing expression (:silly:)

[~*Nicole*~]

My babies were fast eaters and never really ate for much longer than what you said your LO is doing. As he becomes more able to stay awake and isn't as affected by the oxytocin being released when you nurse as much he may nurse for longer periods of time and get more hindmilk. If you find he is acting fussy and gassy you may like block feeding and repeating the same side at the next feed instead of switching back and forth as often, but I am having a hard time remembering how that may affect your supply so you might want to read up on it first.

How hot is crazy hot? I only ask because even in the summer over here, my babies born in August, April and June all were swaddled at first. We did have air conditioning though and that made the temperature inside completely acceptable for swaddling. I have heard of moms overseas just use a very light weight swaddle blanket or zip up style swaddle sack type blanket over only a diaper. If you think that's affecting his sleep you may want to investigate some options. My babies always woke themselves up with their flailing arms and legs and scratching their own faces or pulling their own pacis out. Swaddling was a life saver here.

We also really like using obnoxiously loud white noise. Shushing loud enough is harder than you think.

When they are so little, it's hard to keep a good routine but if you follow the main order things tend to even out. And as pp said, slowly extending those A times is your best bet, going too fast can make things go wacky.

[TuntunsMommy]

Hi Nicole! Thank you and sorry for coming back late.
1. Regarding the swaddle thing, we had a family discussion and my in-laws are against the idea of swaddling (we are 3 generations living together), so I decided to skip the swaddle step though been advised that this is very important (as you said live-saver . FYI, in summer here the average temperature often at 37oC outside (31-32oC inside) and sometimes reach 40-41 outside. And yes, we do use air-con, but just for some certain time of the day because we think our LO also need fresh air in the early morning or afternoon after bath.
2. Just to let you know that finally I'm somehow successful putting A between E & S just like Martini's and your advices (even just for 2 recent days, yet not all of the naps) - today is A time increase to 20 mins. Thanks to you both <3. My LO used to fall asleep during BF all of the time and sometimes I did also feed him to sleep on purpose (ashamed!). I realised that my mistake was that I kept him up for too long (i.e 1hr) and missed his sleep signal, that's why 4S didnt work for me then I fell in the trap feed him to sleep. Now the S part seems not challenging for me like before but still I have some issues:
a. As I skip the swaddle part and for sure sometimes my LO wake up with arms and legs flailing - my solution is to place my hands quite tight on his arms and legs til he seems sleep deeply
b. I only put him on bed when he sleeping, not sleepy because he will be on "awake mode" with eye wide open immediately if I put him down drowsy. Will try to improve this.
3. As you mentioned about acting fussy or gassy during BF, my LO acted the same if he is nursed when still awake, but if he is nursed when drownsy he would be so peaceful. I am quite confusing, it that because he is used to be fed when sleepy or so?

[~*Nicole*~]

1. Regarding the swaddle thing, we had a family discussion and my in-laws are against the idea of swaddling (we are 3 generations living together), so I decided to skip the swaddle step though been advised that this is very important (as you said live-saver . FYI, in summer here the average temperature often at 37oC outside (31-32oC inside) and sometimes reach 40-41 outside. And yes, we do use air-con, but just for some certain time of the day because we think our LO also need fresh air in the early morning or afternoon after bath.

----I see! It's hard to work out how to go about things when living in shared spaces. I know it may not be possible, but do try to remember that this is YOUR baby and that the other mother's have already had their turn raising their children. I know that is a lot easier said than done but I would hate for you to feel unheard when you feel a certain way about your own child. That being said, with the heat and your method of holding the hands and legs firmly, you may find alternatives to the swaddle that work for you and your LO may find that he enjoys sucking on his hands or comforting himself some other way. I also think fresh air is a wonderful and important thing!

2. Just to let you know that finally I'm somehow successful putting A between E & S just like Martini's and your advices (even just for 2 recent days, yet not all of the naps) - today is A time increase to 20 mins. Thanks to you both

That's great!

<3. My LO used to fall asleep during BF all of the time and sometimes I did also feed him to sleep on purpose (ashamed!). I realised that my mistake was that I kept him up for too long (i.e 1hr) and missed his sleep signal, that's why 4S didnt work for me then I fell in the trap feed him to sleep. Now the S part seems not challenging for me like before but still I have some issues:
a. As I skip the swaddle part and for sure sometimes my LO wake up with arms and legs flailing - my solution is to place my hands quite tight on his arms and legs til he seems sleep deeply
b. I only put him on bed when he sleeping, not sleepy because he will be on "awake mode" with eye wide open immediately if I put him down drowsy. Will try to improve this.

Shush/pat can be very helpful to teach LOs to sleep but I haven't had much experience with it not using a swaddle. I hope someone else can give you more advice there.

3. As you mentioned about acting fussy or gassy during BF, my LO acted the same if he is nursed when still awake, but if he is nursed when drownsy he would be so peaceful. I am quite confusing, it that because he is used to be fed when sleepy or so?

It could be that the more awake he is the faster he eats so takes in more air? Sleepy feeding sessions tend to be really calm for the most part. But awake sessions shouldn't be so fussy that your LO seems uncomfortable or extra squirmy. You may find better information on the breastfeeding board.

[TuntunsMommy]

Hi!
We had a long day yesterday with my LO's naps .
His day started at 7.15, then took his first nap at 8, it sounded like a promising day. But it turned out to be worst than ever as he woke up 1hr later at 9am and he couldnt take any nap longer than 30mins until 8pm (. He got frustrated and cried with red face every time I tried to wind him down for sleep. I desperatedly tried sh-pat, gentle walk with him on my arms, hold him on a hammock, bf etc but they barely worked. Lucky for us, his night sleep still as usual (3 times wake up nursing then straight back to sleep.
Today is a bit easier for us as at least he finally takes a full 2hr nap in the morning (from 11am - 1pm). Still he screamed to fight the sleep but I accidentally I found a way to win: when he start crying, I tap his thigh and make the long "eh" from my throat repeatedly, loudly enough to catch his attention and distract him from his frustration (I find it work better than the shhh pat). Hopefully it works again with the next nap if he still fight.
I am wondering that because he is in the Wonder week so he behaves that way? Hopefully it is, or otherwises he is developing a very bad sleeping habit . He is 4w5d now. But I dont see his increasing demand for bf as the ww being described. How long should I expect this to end if it is his ww time?
Besides, I see my LO eats better when he is drownsy because he seems not focus when bf totally wide awake. Still his eating time just around 6-8 mins.
For swaddle thing, thanks for your kind understanding. Swaddle is really odd to most family here except for some young parents living on their own. Sound abit strange to you but its true that there are plently of generation gap which may lead to conflicts during kids raising, some important points we young couples will "fight" to do our way, while the other things we will compromise (like swaddle) - we must balance things .
 

[TuntunsMommy]

Been exploring more threads on the forum and Ive just realised the problem of MINE : inconsistency. I ve tried whatever prop to make my LO sleep and not seriously stick with the pattern . I am going to dig more and will probably get plenty of helpful info. Hang in there and be consistent (*talking to myself*)

[~*Nicole*~]

That's great. I mean, I know it's hard to be consistent. I have a terrible time at it, but babies and children definitely thrive on consistency! I hope you find a routine that works for you!