9 month old sleep problems. PUPD support Needed

[Sarahbevan]

Hi, my little girl is 9 months old and has woken regularly at night and had night feeds up until 8.5 months when I decided to try and tackle our sleep problem. She would previously feed to sleep and was used to being rocked several times a night to get her back to sleep.
We begun the PUPD technique 9 days ago with lots of resistance from her.
Night 1- 3 were difficult with lots of PU and tears but by day 4 she slept through the night.
Night 5 and 6 she woke around 4 and self settled with limited fuss
Night 7 seemed to be a step backwards with her waking at 11 for over an hour
Night 8 she woke again at 11 and went down within the hour
Night 9 she woke again just after 11 and was awake with tears and needing comforting but no PUs for 1.5 hours.
I feel like things are slowly getting worse and I am wondering where I am going wrong. Any advice would be great as being to think it is not going to work.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi there and welcome to BW forums.

Around 9mo is a really tricky age for sleep as there is a big developmental leap around now, seperation anxiety kicks in, sometimes changes to nap routines & often also teething. Even when babies have been sleeping well & self settling previously,sleep can get very disrupted at this age anyway.,. Hence the "8/9/10 month sleep regression"

So it might not be anything you're doing "wrong" but just part of the stage she's at..It sounds like you're doing what you can to get through without re-establishing the feeds or rocking that you've worked so hard to fade out.

My DD is 10 mo and we have just had a fortnight of dreadful, long night wakings.  When my DS went through this, he went back to normal after a week or so on his own.  My DD seemed to get stuck in a habit though and I had to use walk in/walk out (next step on from PU/PD) to eventually get her sleeping better again.

So ... Your DD has slept through so what you're doing for sleep training must be working...so could there be another reason for the wakings?
 Teeth? Seperation anxiety? Working on new skills? Routine changes or need for one?

[Sarahbevan]

Thanks you for your response. She seems well within herself at the moment and separation anxiety I feel has finally passed as we went through a difficult phase with this around 7/8 months old.

We had one night where she slept through and not since. I am continuing to go in and reassure her when she wakes and then gradually leave the room however after 12 days she is still waking several times a night. Should I continue to go in when she cries (these cries are much less compared to when we started) or now that she is beginning to self settle do I need to wait for short intervals in between?

Last night I found that at 4am she would lie peacefully in her cot for a while before crying and then with reassurance shed try to go to sleep but seemed quite awake. I am unsure if this was caused for her being over or under tired? I am wondering if I need to adjust her daily routine. You have mention about the nap transition? What should I be expecting her naps to change to?

Daily routine
WU- 6.30
Nap1 - 8.30
WU- 10.00
Nap2- 1.00
WU- 2.30
BT - 6.30

We have a set bedtime routine which she responds well too. I am unsure if I need to start giving her more awake time between each nap or if the awake time of 4 hours before bed is too long for her? I wondered if this could be causing the increased night wakings.

Any tips would be hugely appreciated as felt that PU/PD was working however we have recently hit a point where no progress if being made.
Thanks in advance

[Scottishmummy]

Hi again!

That routine looks like a 2-3-4 routine? And those naps look pretty good so I'd stick with her daytime routine for now.  If she's settling ok for both naps and for bed and doing a 12hr day, it looks like that day routine still suits her.

Is she self settling for her naps?

It sounds like she might be going through a similar sleep regression thing to my DD.  We eventually tried walk in/walk out..
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
So walking in to her when her cries sounded distressed or when I felt they were escalating rather than calming, soothing her in her cot (no PU) until calm, then walking straight out (rather than gradual withdrawal- tried and just couldn't get out the room for ages), then waiting if she cried to see of her cries started to calm & stop, if not back in and repeat.

It took us 2 nights of this, which were very hard & tiring but her sleep has been much better since.

[Sarahbevan]

Thanks. I have just read this message at 2.30am so will try this from now as this is already the 3rd waking of the night.

No, she does not self settle for naps. When beginning sleep training I felt she missed lots of sleep the first few nights and thought maybe it was best that she had decent naps reading for the training at night. I however didn't know what to do for the best.
The plan was to tackle the naps next but with the night sleep getting worse the timing hasn't seemed right.

Let's see how the rest of the night goes, thanks x

[Scottishmummy]

Hugs for the sleepless night. How did it go?

I meant to add that when my DS went through a similar thing I ended up putting a mattress on the floo of his room and co-sleeping until he got through it... We just couldn't do it with DD as her room isn't big enough and my presence actually seemed to keep her awake.  It is an option to get through the regression but you might not want to introduce another way of getting to sleep which is dependent on you after training with PU/PD.

Also- could she still need one NF,  just to get to morning?

[Sarahbevan]

Thanks, she finally settled at 3.30 after some crying and with me responding by only going in when crying escalated and making sure to leave the room quickly after reassuring her. She then woke at 5.45 which has been happening for around a week now. I have noticed the worse night sleep she has the earlier the seems to wake.

I will continue with the walk in/ walk out tonight and will resist going in to her room unless she is really upset. I know she can self settled as had a few good nights after a few days if training. Really hope we can start to get back on track as feeling a bit disheartened with it all and wondering will it ever work.

She hasn't napped as well today so bedtime is going to have to be earlier. She takes around 18-20oz of milk in the day so unsure if she needs a night feed and have been trying to avoid starting back up with night feeds.

[Scottishmummy]

I hope you get a better night tonight...the WI/WO took 2-3 nights for us but she started settling quicker by the 2nd night and slept loads better after that.

For your early wake up... You might want to try moving the start of her first nap closer to 9...Babies who like a 2-3-4 routine usually move to 2.5-3-4 around 9mo.  If you want to keep a 6.30-6.30 day I'd try a 9.00-10.00 first nap (wake at 10 if she's not up).  That should keep your 2nd nap and BT the same.

Good luck tonight
Xxx

[Scottishmummy]

Just wanted to add..the truck with WI/WO is to work out which cries are getting more upset and which might calm..and go in at the getting more upset cries but try to do it before they get very distressed, otherwise the calming takes longer...it's a hard balance to get..especially at 3am when you're exhausted too!

[Sarahbevan]

Thank you for your helpful advice. I will try extending the awake time before first nap from tomorrow and hopefully see a difference with wake up time. It's hard to keep to a 2 nap day a routine when she's up so early.

I continued with the WI/WO last night which went quite well. She woke 3 times in total and settled quickly for the first 2 however the 3.30 wake up took a little longer but we didn't have many tears and only went in twice as she was just grizzling and finally went to sleep. A third 5.45 wake up though. Hopefully the longer AT in the morning will help.

[Scottishmummy]

Glad you had a bit if a better night, hope it improves again tonight.

Good luck with the nap routine too. It is hard to change when you get EW.  You might want to just try pushing it 10-15mins later at first, then try another 15mins after a few days.

[Sarahbevan]

Great thanks,  the past2 days have been much better with just one weakest around 4. The only problem with this wake is she seems ready to get up. We adjusted the naps which worked fine and helped her routine to keep to a 6,30 bedtime. This 4amwake seem a habit as it happens every night.
I have lay her down and left the room twice but she continues to cry on and off and climb or sit up in her cot reducing to sleep. I'm not sure she will sleep now as 5.30 is when she's been waking fit the day and it is now 5.20!! I have considered feeding her at 4 but wondered if this will hair reinforce the wake up? 

[Scottishmummy]

Good that nights have improved ...but 4am is a very early start!. 

Could be hunger, or could be OT and still catching up on sleep, or UT and maybe needing a bit more nap changing

With a wu that early, I usually do whatever it take to get my DD back to sleep as it gets closer to morning, which sometimes means feeding.

She might still need one night feed? You could try and see if it makes a difference but if she's still wide awake afterwards than you know it's not that.

Today you might have to just go with the flow for naps as she'll be disrupted by EW.  Another night if you get her back to sleep and get a more typical wu time & stick with new routine for a bit to see if she needs to catch up on sleep.

If you're still getting EW after you feel she's caught up on sleep you might want to try pushing the first nap later and shorter still in case she's waking due to being UT in the day e.g. 9.15-10 or even 9.30 to 10 if still getting EW after trying a 45min first nap for a few days