16 month nap issues - routine review?

[Mum2lucy]

hi all,

I feel like i have jinxed myself as everything was going well after a long 2:1 transition but for the past 2-3 weeks, my lg's naps have gone wonky as usual I dont know if she needs an wake time push.

I have had another active post recently about dealing with OT at bed time as I was stopping the bedtime feed which helped with her OT on nursery days. This has been OK but now her naps are really off. I am wondering if she just doesnt need as much day sleep now or if it is a routine issue. For the last 8+ weeks she had been having 2-2.5 hours nap (on non nursery days) but now its an hour - 1.5.

my last three days have been:

wu: 06.42
S: 12.00 - 13.15
Bt: 6.30 (wouldnt self settle, cried with me shhhing until 19.37)

wu: 07.00
S: 12.55 - 14:00 (at nursery, nursery put her down at 12pm but took her 55mins to settle)
Bt: 19.02, sleep 19.30

wu: 06.10
S: 12:15 - 13:16, (managed to rock her back to sleep as wouldnt self settle) then slept 13:34 - 13:40 (didnt bother again to try to get her to sleep)
Bt: 18:55, sleep 19:20

wu: 06.00
11:42 - 13:15 (wouldnt go back to sleep)
bt: 18.45, sleep 19.03

Wu: 6.08 (quiet until 7.07 so not sure if she snoozed again)
S: 12.10 - 13.30 (managed to resettle her quickly), 13:35 - 13:45
Bt: 18.50, sleep 19.20

wu: 07.03
S: 12.25 - 13.45 (wouldnt go back to sleep, left her in cot for ages to see but didnt)
bt: 18.50, sleep 7.20

She isnt fighting the nap around 12pm and is usually asleep within 5/10 mins. She has been ok at bedtime except that one night when she cried on and off for an hour.

She is teething 4 incisors but I have been medicating naps? She self settles for nap and bedtime but has a dummy.At around 12pm she does seem tired yawning and can rub her eyes. I dont know if it is learned tiredness and she needs an A push for a better nap or if I should just leave it be if she is going down at 7pm ish realitively OK? She doesnt do 12 hours at night very often so with the short nap and 11 hours at night, she is only getting about 12 hours sleep when she used to get about 13.5hours.

Edited to say today's nap was even worse!:
Wu: 7.07 (she was upset between 4am-5am so later wake up)
S: 12.05-13.05

I guess she might need an awake time push but just a bit concerned with that for the days she wakes at 6.

Many thanks
xx

[Scottishmummy]

Sorry you've not had a reply yet, how have the last couple of days gone?

I wonder if it's worth trying a later nap? Around 12.30? But as clocks change this wkend, you might want to wait until she's adjusted to that?

[Mum2lucy]

Hey!

I'd left this a bit to see how things went with the clock change but I'm still in such a mess. She's been ill to be fair but that's not the only reason her sleep is off for sure.

She is consistently doing 10hrs 20mins at night and I can't get her to do more whereas she used to do 11-11.5 hours.

When I put her down at 12 she is pretty much refusing to sleep. She just rolls around so you'd think she needs it pushed back. However she's now early waking at 5. I feel like I'm back in the 2:1 

If she is up at 5am do I short morning cn to get to 12.30 to try and make that the set nap or should I just plough through to 12.30?

Edited to say: my lg falls asleep in the car if out in the morning so in the quest to get to 12.30, if I go out and she falls asleep it messes it all up

[Martini~]

Until what age you were on 2 naps and what was her last "working" routine?

[Mum2lucy]

She was until 2 naps until 11 months then one nap from then with quite a long transition to one nap. Had been reliably doing 2hrs sleep at 12pm looking like

Wu: 6-7 (usually nearer 6.15/6.30
S: 12 - 2 (set nap of 12)
Bt 7, asleep for half 7

It's all gone horribly wrong somehow.

Yesterday was:
Wu: 6.30
S: 11.40 - 12.40 (physically was falling asleep on me by then. Wouldn't do more than an hour)
Bt: 6.35 sleep 7

Wu 5.10am and wouldn't go back to sleep

[Scottishmummy]

I wrote a long reply but lost it!

I'm sorry you're still having trouble with this.  I would try to avoid going back to 2 naps if you can though. After 1 nap is established, 2 might give you more EWs & disruption.

I *think* that I would try to stick with very set nap & BT. I wonder whether shifting BT earlier some days to compensate for shorter nap has disrupted things. I can only do earlier BT with my DD now if she sleeps under an hour.

So I would try a few days sticking to nap no earlier than 12 & BT no earlier than 7 to get back on track. Then I think I'd try pushing on through to a 12.30 nap with distractions or food/snacks galore and avoiding car journeys for a couple of mornings while you get established. I'd keep BT as 7 for 7.30 though.

Hope that helps, good luck xxx

[Mum2lucy]

I'm back... I don't think I'm seeing much improvement. She is crying loads at bedtime and taking ages to go off. I can't tell if the crying at bed is deprecating anxiety or a routine issue. It is so frustrating that she doesn't show tired signs as I'm cautious about doing wi/so in case she just isn't tired enough?

The last week or so has been:

Wu: 5.15
S: 12.07 - 13.45
Bt: 19.08, sleep 19.38

Wu: 06.33
S: 12.00-13.20 (wouldn't resettle)
Bt: 6.55, sleep 7.05

Wu: 6.15
S: 11.55-13.50
Bt: 19.07, sleep 19.45

Wu: 05.33
S: 12.05 - 14.00
Bt: 7.00, sleep 7.15

Wu: 05.45
S: 11.49 - 13.49 (fell asleep in high chair and had to take her up, then woke at 1hr mark but managed to get her to resettle)
Bt: 7.03 (cried loads so had to shhhh to sleep) sleep 7.33
2 night wakings where had to go in

Wu: 7.00
S: 12.45 - 13.35 (was at party and fell asleep on way home and transferred to go but wouldn't sleep on when she woke at 50mins)
Bt: 7, sleep 7.30

Wu: 6.15
S: 10.55-11.45 (went out a short walk in pram and fell asleep)
S: 15.40-16.00 (was in car and couldn't be avoided)
Bt: 7, sleep 7.45

Wu: 07.05
S: 12.14-14.24
Bt: 7.15, cried lots had to shhh, sleep 7.40

Wu: 06.30
S: 13.00-14.30 (nursery sleep so was put down at 12.00 but didn't go off until 1)
Bt: 7, very upset had to shhh, sleep 7.45

I feel like no matter how consistent I'm trying to be, she's an erratic sleeper. Do you have any thoughts of those days? Some days she goes off to sleep herself fine and others she gets really upset! I can't seem to see a pattern but maybe I'm too involved to see it!

Thank you xx

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

I think your routine actually looks quite consistent - looks like there is some variability in Wu time but usually around 6-7 and some variability in naptime due to circumstances out with your control but usually around 12ish & if she's at home in her cot she's doing a 1.5-2hr nap.

If she's often taking a long time to settle at BT, do you think a slightly later BT would help e.g. 7.15 to be asleep by 7.30, or even closer to 7.30 and hope for a quick drop off?

[Mum2lucy]

I've been trying a later bedtime with the same 12pm nap. Some nights it def works and she is asleep within 20mins and other times it is still 40 mins to get to sleep.

If I push nap out to 12.30, what do you think about the nursery set nap of 12, would you ask them to move that as well for her too? I'm tempted to just leave the nursery nap at 12 as I think she is in their routine. She does mess around at nursery nap time some days but then other days she sleeps for two hours.

I try to analyse everything and my oh thinks I shouldn't bother and just roll with each day and not worry about routine so much 

[Scottishmummy]

Personally, I always found that nursery do their own thing and/or LOs are different in nursery compared to home so I would leave nursery as is unless it's causing big problems but be consistent as much as possible on home days xxx