Out of arms and into the cot!

[annakenrick]

Hello everyone, I have a question about awake times.
I am currently trying to get my 11 weeks old out of my arms/papoose for naps and into the cot.
He is only sleeping 45mins and then I try and settle with shh pat, sometimes works sometimes doesn't!
My question is...if he only has 45 mins do I then keep him awake to his next nap time or as I am currently doing put  him down after around 1hr30mins which usually ends up not long after his feed?
I do this as I don't want him to get over tired.
So day looks like generally
Awake 645
Eat 7am
Sleep 815-9
Awake 9-10
Eat 10
Sleep 1030 - 1115 shh pat maybe goes until 1230
Awake 1230
Eat 1pm
Awake until 2ish
Sleep 2ish until 330.
Eat 4
Awake until 515
Sleep 515-545/6
Eat 6
Bath etc
Top up around 645 then sleep

If naps aren't going well do I resort back to arms/ papoose to ensure he as at least 1 long nap or do I just keep going with 45mins or broken naps?

Hope someone has some advice as nights are also bad so don't want to make them my worse with n overtired baby! Help!!

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

Short naps are very typical around this age & I think the way to try to avoid OT during this phases is exactly as you are doing- keep age appropriate A times and do 4 short naps, or try to resettle or AP a longer nap if you feel tiredness is creeping on, or you just need a break from sleep training!

Sometimes W2S can help extend naps, the option of going in before LO wakes and soothing through transition so they don't fully wake: How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

How is transition to cot naps going? Is he settling in the cot?

[annakenrick]

Hi thanks for your reply. It's going ok some days better than others but he never last longer Jan 30/45 mins. Once I got him Back to sleep with shh pat but only once. I will try w2s!
 So yes a few short naps and then one long one in pram over lunch. Unfortunalty his nights are still horrendous. Last night waking nearly every hour! I think he wants to suck on bottle or a dummy to get back to sleep so I think I may have to use PU Pdfrom next week if doesn't get any better as it's getting worse! He's 12 weeks now so PuPd is ok now???
At day naps I let him suck on a dummy for 10seconds to calm him then pull it out like the book says, but maybe that needs to go too to help the nights, what do you think?

[creations]

If your LO is not reliant on the dummy for sleep (ie you have been removing as you say you have) then I wouldn't worry about keeping it but neither would I worry about dropping it.  Using it all the way to sleep means it becomes a prop and a baby reliant on it for sleep shouldn't have it dropped cold turkey (SIDS guidance).

PUPD is a method intended for older LOs and a method of last resort. I wouldn't advise it at this age. Shush/pat is the way to go.
What's different about the pram nap - is the pram on the move? Rocking?
Some people actually prefer LO to be able to sleep well in a pram so you could even consider all naps in there whether at home or out and about as it does free up your arms to be able to do other stuff.

Sleep training does take time, shush/pat and PUPD are not quick fixes or no-cry solutions, they are methods whereby your LO is supported by you whilst they learn to sleep independently.

My question is...if he only has 45 mins do I then keep him awake to his next nap time or as I am currently doing put  him down after around 1hr30mins which usually ends up not long after his feed?

This is really your choice. In the books Tracy kept LOs up to the next timed nap which meant some super long A times, it can help to establish a good routine and independent sleeping much more quickly but can also be very hard work as LO is bound to get OT.  Often on the forums people prefer to go slower which means timing the A from when LO wakes at a short nap and putting them down at the end of the A time rather than a 'set' nap time.

[annakenrick]

Hello

Thanks for your reply. In the daytime I can use dummy to settle and then he seems to be ok when I remove it. At nights I think it's a prop! We put it in and when it falls out he wakes up or when we hold him and put it in and then remove he wakes up as we put him in cot!!

We are trying a 3.5 routine but he is still only having 2/3oz. He is then taking 3 bottles till during the night where he takes 4/5oz. He wants to feed every 2.5 hrs during night but will go longer I think during the day if I let him!!
Questions....
Shall we just persevere  with 3.5 feeds, he's on formula, and hope he starts taking more in day then night?
Do we limit night feeds, starting with 130am and see if he can wean him off this feed to try and help day time feeds? Currently feeding at 1045pm/130am/5isham
He wakes up after 1.5 /2 hrs after a feed shall we just persevere with shh pat and get rind of a dummy?
Currently he only sleeps for around 30/40mins in his cot for first nap, I then let him have 2 hrs in pram for 2nd nap, is that too long? He sleep for 2 hrs as it is moving!
This is routine on a good day....
7am feed 2oz
820/30 sleep in cot generally 30/40 mins
9-1030 awake
1030 feed
11-1/130 sleep generally in moving pram
2pm feed
3pm ish sleep for an hr/hr and half depending on whether in arms/cot/pram
5pm feed
530-6 sleep in arms
615 bath
630 feed
7 sleep where he goes down independently without dummy or anything but then seems to lose this ability during the night!!!

He does sounds like he has reflux and he has started to be abit sick more than he used too so will take him to doctors his week.
During night if we try shh pat when we are holding him he goes crazy until we give him dummy or bottle! 

Sorry I am not fleeting anywhere this week and feel totally done in!!
Thanks in advance for any help!

[creations]

Shall we just persevere  with 3.5 feeds, he's on formula, and hope he starts taking more in day then night?

I see you have a bottle feeding thread open so I'll let Laura support you on the E side of things.

Looking at your routine times it seems there is 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 first A time, followed by a short nap and a much longer A time of 2hrs before the pram nap. Now I know he likes rocking in the pram so will sleep longer but I also thin kit is worth looking at that A time.  That first A time is the right length for his age, but if he can handle a 2hr A time after a short nap it does make me wonder if he does better on the longer A times.  Looks like that third A time might be closer to 2hrs too.
How about increasing the first A time by 10 mins and see if it has any effect on making the cot nap easier to resettle?
Are you also trying a W2S at the transition to help him move from one sleep cycle to the next?
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

It does take time for a LO to learn to sleep in the cot rather than in arms/sling or pram.