8 month old terrible naps

[Rhales]

I've been on here before with help for my little guy. He is a terrible napper. Just terrible. He can't get past the 30 minute mark 95% of the time. And also is having a hard time sleeping through the night and will still wake to eat. I can't imagine that he just needs one nap at this age but I really don't know what to do with him. I have been keeping him up for about 3 hours before naps but if he gets up at 7am 3 hours later is 10 am. It seems late to start a nap at 10. What if he sleeps 2 hours? Then he's up at 12. Doesn't have throw the entire day off with another nap starting at 3pm?

Here is what our schedule looks like:
7 am wake
9-10am Anywhere in this range he will go down for a nap. if he wakes at 6am I still wait till 9 to put him down for a nap but he has a hard time making it. then he usually wakes up 30-40 minutes later and then I try to get him back to sleep. Sometimes he sleeps 1.40minutes but most of the time he doesn't.
11 am eat
11-2pm Awake
2-4pm nap
4pm eat
6pm eat
7-7:30pm Sleep
11pm Dream feed
3-4am awake crying

Last night he was awake at 4 am and I tried for 45 minutes to get him back to sleep. finally I fed him and he slept till after 7 when I woke him because I wanted him to take a morning nap. He was exhausted at 8:30 so I got him ready for his nap. he cried a lot and then he finally fell asleep practically in my arms at 9:20, and then woke up at 10 am crying. He is tired and when I try to help him back to sleep he won't do it. He used to respond to the hand on the back and pu/pd and now he doesn't he sees me and wants to play. I don't know what to do. some nights he sleeps through the night and then some nights he doesn't. Its driving me crazy and I'm so tired. Please help.

[creations]

Hi there

I have been keeping him up for about 3 hours before naps but if he gets up at 7am 3 hours later is 10 am. It seems late to start a nap at 10. What if he sleeps 2 hours? Then he's up at 12. Doesn't have throw the entire day off with another nap starting at 3pm?

As your LO isn't doing a 2hr morning nap I don't think this is an issue but lets say he did start to do two long 2hr naps per day, starting naps at 10am and 3pm is fine and he might be happy with a slightly shorter last A time (say 2.5hr with 7.30 BT) or if he needed a full 3hr A time then BT could move to 8pm. For lots of people this is a good routine as LO is well rested and although us parents might all like a 7pm BT the reality is that if a LO goes down happily and without a struggle at 8pm and sleeps well through the night, this is pretty attractive to parents despite the loss of 1hr Y time.
As LOs get older though and need that longer A time it is normal for one of the naps to become shorter, it isn't a sudden cut to one nap but more a period of transition where you keep one long nap (1.5hr or 2hr) and the other nap is shorter. This helps to fit all the naps and A times into the day.

From what I understand your LO doesn't sleep beyond 30 mins for any of his naps, is that right?  So what happens then? You help him go back to sleep? or do W2S? or wait for him to call you then try to resettle? or finish the nap in arms/sling?
Also what is the difference between nap 1 and nap 2 where for nap 2 he is sleeping 2hrs (I assume you are resettling every 30 mins?) but nap 1 is only about 1hr long, can you not resettle that nap?

How are solids going? What times are you offering solids and is he taking much?

I would really resist putting him down for a nap until his A time is 3hrs or it is 10am.  It sounds to me like he is UT for naps and not sleeping so well.  At this age some LOs need more like 3.5 or 4hrs A time to be able to sleep well.

[Rhales]

Thank you so much for responding. There was a period of time where he was napping better but overall he hasn't been the best at getting past the 30 minute park. Sometimes he can do it, sometimes he cries out but falls back to sleep. I have had a hard time reading him and have just had to keep him up for longer periods and it got better. Yesterday I he seemed so tired from being up in the night so thats why I get him to sleep earlier but I guess he needed to just push through in the morning to be awake for 3 hours. Then I think I had him up too long in the afternoon and he was OT and then only napped 30 minutes again. I tried to get him back to sleep with pu/pd and holding him to calm him down but he didn't go back to sleep. I did give him another nap at 4:50-5:30 and then bed at 7:30 and he fell asleep around 8.

So to answer your questions he can sometimes make it past 30 minutes it seems when he is up for 3 hours he can usually have a better nap but sometimes not. I used to be able to get him back to sleep but recently he has been fighting it. I think maybe too OT. He wakes up and cries right away, sometimes it sounds like a scared cry. So to get him back to sleep I put my hand on him and then do pu/pd or he falls asleep in my arms because he's so fitful and then I try to put him in his bed again.

There really isn't a difference between nap 1 and nap 2. Sometimes if he has a 30 minute morning nap he will nap from 1:30-4 in the afternoon. I thought that would happen yesterday but he didn't. if he makes it past the 30 minute window he will sleep for an hour and 30.

Solids are going well. I feed him solids around an hour after he gets milk. I also top him off before his second nap. He has an older brother and I feel like its hard to get him to eat and we are rushing around to get out of the house to get him from school on time (pick up is at 11:30)

This morning he got up at 6:20 so he just fell asleep at 9:30 so hoping he sleeps a good 1.5 hours. I'll keep you updated.
He did sleep through the night last night so that was great!

[creations]

I suspect that what you are interpreting as OT is really UT.  I see you were advised 2 months ago to increase to 3hrs A time so I would really expect to see longer than 3hrs by now.  Often people expect UT short naps to show as LO waking up happy - they don't always - mine woke screaming and upset when he he'd had an UT short nap, basically he knew he was tired and needed to be asleep but he was not tired enough to stay asleep so he was very frustrated and upset.  increasing the A time helped him with that.  With your Lo, his age, cues and routine I would imagine he needs to be at a full 3hrs fora  couple of days then increase to 3hr 15 for another few days and possible another 15 mins added to establish an appropriate routine.

[Rhales]

ok. what would his schedule look like then if he's supposed to be up for more than 3 hours at a time?

He slept through the night last night and woke at 6:00 am but was thrown off bc I moved his pack n play in to another room so I could work. His bed is in our room where I also have a computer that I work at. He only napped 30 minutes 9:30-10. He went for his second nap at 1:00 and has been sleeping for 1.5 at this point and is still sleeping as I type this.

Yesterday was good he had a 1.5 hour nap at both naps and was in bed at 7:30pm he didn't cry at all and was very content in his bed.

[creations]

ok. what would his schedule look like then if he's supposed to be up for more than 3 hours at a time?

It really depends on the individual LO. BW routines are for guidance as all LOs routines are slightly different and dependent on all sorts of criteria, but:

lets say he did start to do two long 2hr naps per day, starting naps at 10am and 3pm is fine and he might be happy with a slightly shorter last A time (say 2.5hr with 7.30 BT) or if he needed a full 3hr A time then BT could move to 8pm. For lots of people this is a good routine as LO is well rested and although us parents might all like a 7pm BT the reality is that if a LO goes down happily and without a struggle at 8pm and sleeps well through the night, this is pretty attractive to parents despite the loss of 1hr Y time.
As LOs get older though and need that longer A time it is normal for one of the naps to become shorter, it isn't a sudden cut to one nap but more a period of transition where you keep one long nap (1.5hr or 2hr) and the other nap is shorter. This helps to fit all the naps and A times into the day.

He only napped 30 minutes 9:30-10. He went for his second nap at 1:00 and has been sleeping for 1.5 at this point and is still sleeping as I type this.

Obviously with only a 30 min morning nap it is hard to get through a full day even with 3hrs of A time and at the end of the day you are stuck with either a very long A time before BT (which can lead to OT NWs) or the option of EBT (early bed time) which some LOs agree to and some don't.  Either option runs the risk of the following morning WU time being off and effecting the following days routine which is why we try to keep routines consistent day to day when possible.

Yesterday was good he had a 1.5 hour nap at both naps and was in bed at 7:30pm he didn't cry at all and was very content in his bed.

Sounds good.