8.5 mo wakes up 3-5 times and not resettling

[foreignmom]

Hi, I got very helpful advice here many times as we always had sleep problems. So firstly I want to thank you all. This time Ds is 8.5 mo, waking up 3-5 times at night and not settling. Although changes day to day our routine is roughly like:
Wu and bf: 07.00
Solids: 08.00 ( so little, not interested in solids at all)
Top up bf:09.00 (as solids are very very little)
Nap: 11.00 ( he always had high A times low sleep needs)
( used to nap for 1.5 h but now 1h or 1.15 )
Wu and bf: 12.00 or 12.15
Solids: 13.00
Top up bf: 14.00
Nap: 16.00 ( usually for 45 min. I wake him up if more than one hour)
Wu and bf: 16.45- 17.00
Solids: 19.00
Bf :20.00
Bt: 20.30
I know its a late bt but as second nap is late bt is getting later everyday.He fights if I try to make an earlier nap or bt. Once I capped the first nap at 45 min.to have an earlier second nap but it didnt make a change.
The problem is he used to have two nf which I was ok with because he used to go back to sleep after nightfeeds. Now he wakes up 3-4-5 times and doesnt go back to sleep after nfs. It takes my husband half an hour after every wu shh patting. I nurse than put him to his crib drowsy as I always did. Ds cries like crazy so dh shh patts him to sleep. Pu pd isnt an option because our son has clubfoot braces attached to his feet. I must add that he is very fussy during the day.
We are very sleep deprived and exhausted. Can you help us please?

[creations]

Hi there
Do you think your LO might be moving towards one nap rather than two? It's early but some do go early and it seems he has always had the longer A times.
Mine started to show signs at 9 - 9.5 months which isa bit early but some LOs move particularly early to one nap when they are very low sleep needs.

I think I'd probably try the capped nap again.  When the routine changes like this it usually doesn't show the result after one day but rather over a week or so (and when a bit older it often needs even longer to show the results really).  If he isn't resisting the nap time then put down for nap at the same time but cap at 45 min every day for the first nap and then let the second be longer - or - the other way around if you think the first nap needs to be the longer one, let it be 1,5hr (maybe move it 10 min later to get it back to 1.5hr?) and cap nap 2 at 45 min daily.

Have your read the links on the 2-1?  Maybe not as they look like they are for older LOs:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.new#new

[becj86]

Hi,
I wonder if your LO is truly an independent sleeper or if he's associating that BF with sleep at night. With those extra disruptions to his sleep at night, he could be getting OT but I think that it might be best to try a gradual withdrawal and get something in between the BF and BT so he's really practising those skills of settling himself off to sleep independently. You can certainly still use shush/pat or a variation of it - no reason not to do that.

When at night is he waking? Is there a reason DH is doing the resettling? Is DS looking for the breast when he wakes?

Have you thought about:
- teething - some pain relief may help
- temperature - too hot or too cold can affect sleep more than you'd imagine
- itch/discomfort with the braces - I presume you check under them regularly for redness or pressure sores but worth mentioning just in case, especially if its getting hotter where you are and he's sweating under them
- gut sensation - if you've just started solids in the evening, sometimes just the sensation of digesting solids at night can have LO's waking more at night

I agree with Creations that ideally he would have one nap of at least 1.5hr - you really want him to be able to take long naps if he's going to drop to one nap soon, because one nap of 1:15 is unlikely to be sufficient at this age.

[foreignmom]

Thanks a lot Creations and Becj86. You both are so helpful that I cant thank enough. Its been three days and I did like that :
Wake up: ~ 7.00
Nap 1 : 11.00 to 12.25 ~
Nap 2 : 16.30 to 17.00 or 17.10 ( he woke himself )
Bt: 20.00
Roughly this routine. I plan to move to one nap by decreasing rhe cat nap gradually. I did a long am and short pm nap because his pm nap is always unpredictable. Lots of times he napped suprisingly short after short am naps so I prefer long am short pm nap to guarantee. Good news is he wakes at night but goes back to sleep after quick night feeds again.He doesnt wake fully and cry. I know its not an ideal situation for a almost nine month old baby to feed two or three times at night but even this improvement relieved us a lot.
He doesnt associate breastfeed with sleep for naps or bed time. Sometimes fully independently, sometimes a little shht pat. But when he wakes at night he wants bf. Thats why Im sending dh. He gives him water and shh pats sometimes goes back to sleep sometimes doesnt go back to sleep and I feed. For example: at 12- 3 and 5.30 am.Or 12-4 and 6 am. Always changes so I think he is hungry but refuses more solids or formula at daytime. Only breastfeed and very little solids. How can I night wean without making him cry? I try Pantleys gradual method bu he woke even more times.
Thanks in advance.

[creations]

I think it's considered normal for a BF baby to still have 2 night feeds at this age.  I probably wouldn't try to drop the NFs or at least not both.  Trying to wean a night feed and LO still crying is likely a sign he is hungry and just needs the feed.  Maybe instead of your DH going in to try to settle it wouldbe less disturbance to everyone's sleep if you just BF right off and all go back to bed?
He would need to take in more calories during the day to be able to go a little longer at night between feeds, good solids containing higher fats and proteins plus day BFs but there is no hurry, Your LO is not yet 9 months and LOs are all very different with how they take to solids, some just aren't very interested until a bit later.  I have seen LOs who take almost no solids up to 9 months and then the interest increases.  So keep offering good quality solids, nice healthy foods and a range of textures and tastes and he will gradually try them more over the coming months.

Your plan to gradually reduce the afternoon nap is a good one.