waking up 8 or 9 times per night

[zelda]

my baby is almost four months old and has never been a good night sleeper.  he has always woken two to three times every night since the beginning.

but, since last week, he has been waking up 8 or 9 times, and several of those times to feed.  nothing has changed in his routine.  what could this be from?

i am worried that he is not getting enough calories during the day and i will need to wean as i put him to the breast every 2h already.

[beth.kornreich]

My baby is 8 1/2 weeks old and I've been experiencing the same thing.  He seems to be hungry every 2 hours although sometimes I can push it to 2 1/2 hours during the day but at night he's been up every 2 hours.  For the last few nights it's been almost every hour and the night before last he wouldn't go back to sleep after the 3:00 a.m. feeding until 4:00 a.m.  Last night he was up from 2:00 a.m. until 4:00 a.m.  I've been considering weaning as well all though I really enjoy breast feeding I feel like I'm losing it not getting enough sleep at night .  If anyone has any advice I would love to hear it.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I went through this (and worse!).  Partly it's a developmental thing - when they start rolling, sitting up, etc, they seem to like to practice at night  :roll: so that can be part of what the problem is.  Are both your babies able to put themselves to bed in their crib at night on their own?  I found a bit turning point was when I started being able to leave the room before my dd was actually asleep. She also really improved once she got proficient at rolling (and now seems to sleep more on her tummy).

Check the daytime schedules (you might want to post them to see if it tweaks any thoughts in anyone) - are they napping enough and not overtired?  Are they eating well during those frequent feeds during the day or just snacking?  Then overnight, are they really really eating for hunger or is it a soothing thing (to rule out a hunger issue).  It CAN be hunger - often growth spurts cause increased nightwakings, but they don't last too long unless a habit is formed.  How are you getting them back to sleep at night when they wake?  If you are always nursing, they'll expect it.  I found I had to try other ways instead of feeding once I ruled out hunger.  It also DOES tend to get better as they get older, I found!

From someone who knows, believe me I understand how hard it is to have so many nighwakings!  But please think carefully before you decide to wean - there are a lot of other possible things to try first...some bottle fed babies also wake often!  HTH and I'm sure you'll get some more suggestions too!  Feel free to PM me for support if you need! 

[beth.kornreich]

Thanks so much for the supportive reply.  I've been trying to get my baby on a bit of a schedule but since he's only about 2 months it's still a bit chaotic.  He tends to go every two hours during the day but if we are running around in the car he'll fall asleep and he'll go a bit longer 2 1/2 to 3 hours.  He never really goes longer than 3 hours. Usually he's up by 6 a.m and feeds somewhere around 8, 10, 12, 2, 4, 6, 8. 10, 12 (duing the night it can be every two hours or every hour for a cluster).  I usually try to keep him awake during the day after a feed and begin to wind him down after he's been up for about 45 minutes (rocking in the rocking chair).  He'll sleep until the next feed could be 1/2 hour or an hour depending on how long it took him to fall asleep.  He almost weighs 12 lbs. and I'm hoping that when he hits 12 lbs he'll go a bit longer between feedings.  Do you think caffiene could be a culprit?  I've been eating some chocolate and I've had some iced tea.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Caffeine can definitely get into your milk...you could try cutting it out to see if it helps.  It might also help to work on the daytime naps - see if you can extend them longer than 45 min...I always found that with the short naps, she'd be overtired, so want to nurse for comfort and end up snacking.  You really want to work on full feeds and longer naps, if possible.  The fact that he goes 2.5 or 3 hrs when he sleeps longer in the car suggests that he'd probably be ok on a 2.5 or 3 hr schedule for most of the day, moving to 2 hr cluster feeds later in the afternoon/evening.  At 2 months, my lo could only stand 45 min awake time TOTAL. So I'd have to wind down BEFORE we got to 45 minutes.  Do you use pat/shh to put her to sleep?  Also, at bedtime, do you have a routine?  I found that we really needed our bath as a wind down.

[beth.kornreich]

I think the reason he is napping for a short time is because I haven't been swaddling him anymore.  At the two month visit when I told the Dr. that he was now able to roll from his belly to his back he told me I needed to take all loose blankets out of the crib and stop swaddling.  Now, when he startles he wakes up.  We have a bedtime routine (bath, massage with moisturizer, pajamas and cuddle then sleep. I've tried the winding down earlier but he just won't stay asleep.  I haven't been doing the pat/shush.  I'll have to review it on the website and give it a try

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Hmmm....I don't want to disagree with the doctor's orders, but I'm surprised that he said you shouldn't swaddle anymore...  Maybe other moms can comment?  I swaddled for about 5 months, but my dd wasn't rolling.  I'm not sure why that should be a problem for swaddling, because it's really tight - not loose blankets at all.  I wouldn't be surprised if the big problem here is that he really liked being swaddled and that's what's waking him.  How long has he been without it?

Pat/shh worked great for us for a long time - basically you pat and shush  until baby is asleep and you may need to keep going for a while if he tends to startle early on.  Then what worked for many people was to go in at the 45 min mark (or a bit before) and start to pat or even put a hand on his stomach, so that when he stirs, you're right there to ease him back to sleep.  This honestly didn't ever really work well for my dd, but it's definitely worth a try.

[rachelle]

hi!
you've gotten some great advice from Erin.  I'd agree to keep swaddling.  I actually swaddled my 2nd dd until about 7 months, and she started rolling over around 3-4 months.  Once she was rolling, a tight swaddle was SO important.  Maybe I'll try to get my dh to take some pics of his swaddle for me to put on here, because it was WONDERFUL. 

I second working on naps during the day, getting full feeds, and also watching the caffeine.

HTH

[beth.kornreich]

Wow, what a difference the swaddle made last night.  After the 10:00 feed he wouldn't go back down to sleep eventually at 11:00 I swaddled him used a pacifier and within a 10 minutes he was sleeping.  He didn't wake up again until 1:00 and then at 3:30 and then slept until 6:00.  Much better than the night before when he was waking up every hour.  I'm going to try to get him on a 2 1/2 hour schedule today.  Another thing was I didn't change his diaper at any of the feedings last night, just fed and put him down.  Also no caffiene yesterday.  So, who knows what it actually was but I'm feeling it was the swaddle.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

DEFINITELY don't be changing a diaper overnight! I just layer on the ointment before bed and (unless something catastrophic happens), leave it on until morning.  After all, when he's sleeping  through (and that's WHEN, mind you! :wink: ), you won't wake him to change it, right?

[zelda]

well, he has been able to put himself back to sleep for a few nights now (finally!) and the situation has improved somewhat.

i used to nurse him to sleep, and he has finally adjusted to falling asleep without a nipple in his mouth (i used/am using Pantley's gentle removal method).  now i put him in his crib awake, turn him on his side and shush a little bit.  i leave the room, and come back a few minutes later to turn him on his back.  works great, except he now wakes up trying to roll onto his side to put himself back to sleep. 

so now i either help him roll onto his side (most of the time) or feed him (only wanted to feed once last night, yippee!).

but at least he is putting himself to sleep without feeding and i am over the moon about it.

napping has also improved - from the dreaded 45 minutes to 1.5-2 hours.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

That's WONDERFUL news!  Way to go!!