won't eat much during day, wakes all night to eat

[darbie]

My 3 1/2 month old son has started to nurse very little during the day and then wakes up multiple times during the night and takes a full or near full feeding.  This just started a few days ago and I'm not sure why or how to get him to eat more during the day.  He is on a 3-3.5 hour EASY schedule, trying to transition to 4 hour EASY and eliminate 45 minute naps.  He nurses for a couple of minutes, then arches his back and screaches as if he doesn't want any more.  Any suggestions on how to get him to eat more during the day or what may have caused this?  Last night he woke up 3 times during the night and ate a full meal each time (plus he had a dream feed).

Just for some background, my ds was a snacker that needed to be breastfed to sleep with no routine about a month ago.  After getting Tracy's first book, we got him sleeping in the crib with a good routine at nap and bedtime that didn't include breastfeeding to sleep.  I tried putting him on a 3 hour easy, and he transitioned to eating every 3 hours relatively well over a several day period, but we were always having 45 minute naps.  Since he is getting close to four months, I started extending him morning awake time and trying to extend his naps with Wake to Sleep and PU/PD (following the routine Tracy talks about in her second book with a 3 1/2 month old who was never on a routine).  He went through a growth spurt for a few days and was eating a lot at each meal, and woke a couple of times a night for a night or two to eat.  The growth spurt seemed to pass, since yesterday he ate only very small meals during the day.  Unfortunately, he woke at night to eat several more times.  This morning I have been unable at his two meals so far to get him to eat much at all, so I'm afraid tonight will be the same story.

I appreciate any input that anyone can share.

[momofowen]

Arching back and screaming seems to me like there is something in your BM that he is not doing well with.  Is there something that you have every morning for breakfast consistantly, that you do not have at night? Like coffee, butter, etc?  It could be that he is having a hard time with whatever it is you are eating in the AM, thus the short feeds, and the screaming/arching.  Yo ucan try mylicon drops as well, as those are for gas pains.  They may help.  The reason why he is waking up at night so much is because he is not getting enough milk during the day.  Try to think baout what yo uare eating in the AM.

[darbie]

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure if the problem could be something I'm eating since I have trouble with him at the first feed of the day which is before I've had anything to eat or drink.

When he was going through his growth spurt, he was emptying my breasts and still hungry, so after he breastfed I would supplement with some previously pumped breastmilk.  Is it possible he now wants the bottle instead of the breast?

[momofowen]

Lynn,

How much are you drinking, as in water/ juice etc during the day. 
I would strongly suggest that you use either mothers milk tea, or a pint of guiness to help with your supply.  Remember that if you stop using the expressed BM you will create more milk in your own body - this is done by !) nursing more often, as the baby does go through a growth spurt, and you need to change your supply/quality.. 2) drinking teas/more water/ the more you hydrate yourself the more you will be able to produce.  3) having a small glass of guiness - i know I keep repeating this, but I had major issues with my daughter, and thought i was drying out, she was not drinking like she should, and my milk was watery - I went to a health food store and the woman told me totry guiness- actually she said "these milk pills are 30$, you can take them or go get yourself a guiness as it has the same active ingredient for much less $$ "  so I got a guiness, and my oh my --- it was like heavy cream coming out of me... it was amazing .. nursing times went way down, and the quality of the milk was astounding.  remember to try one thing at a time - how much does your lo weigh?

[darbie]

momofowen,

My ds weighs about 14 lbs now.  His growth spurt seems to have come to an end, and my milk supply seems OK.  I did start drinking extra when I was having a hard time keeping up.  I did nurse a bit more often, and was also pumping to try and boost my supply.  I haven't tried Guiness, but I think my milk supply is OK, I'm now wondering why my ds won't seem to eat enough during the day, and is then hungry all night.

We've had two horrible nights now that I was attributing to not getting enough to eat during the day, but now I am wondering if there isn't something else going on.  I have been trying to follow the transition plan from a 3 to a 4 hour EASY given in tracy's third book (pg 230).  We had gotten far enough to have gone from 3 naps plus a catnap to 3 naps and a temporarily slightly earlier bedtime.  I'm wondering now if I may have been pushing too hard.  Perhaps my ds is just so overtired that he is now also not sleeping well at night, is this possible?

Last night he went to bed at 6:30, woke at 8:30 when I put him back to sleep using pat/shhh, woke at 9:45 and seemed hungry, I fed him and put him back to sleep.  I then skipped the dream feed since he had just eaten.  He woke again at 11:30, put him back to sleep with pat/shhh, but then he woke immediately again and my husband put him back to sleep.  He woke around 1:30, seemed hungry, so I fed him and he slept until 5:00.  I got him back to sleep using pat/shhh, but he woke again at 6:15 and up for the day.  All night he had much more difficulty than usual getting back to sleep.  Previously sleep came relatively easy at night and was only difficult during the day, now I'm afraid I've made him so over tired that his nights are affected.

The night before was similar, and I'm exhausted.  I'm not sure if I should just give up and go back to the 3 hour EASY, or continue to try 3 naps a day.  The reason I started on this is because he is 3 1/2  months, was suffering from 45 minute naps (so it was hard to follow any routine), and is going to daycare in 2 weeks where I'm afraid he might only get a morning nap and an afternoon nap each day.

Do you think all this waking could be due to not enough food during the day, even when he is waking and not hungry?  Have a made him so overtired that he can't sleep well at night?

Thanks for the help

[teezee]

have u thought that maybe your lo could have reflux?  can't be sure without seeing a doctor but it kinda sounds the way my lo was.  she would also eat when she was drowsy and would do the same screaming/back arching when she was awake.  she also ate smaller meals throughout the day so her belly wouldn't be so full and painful.  maybe before u get in to see a dr u want to try some non-medicating solutions...like leaving lo upright after feedings, slant mattress on an angle, or let lo sleep sitting up.  there are tonnes of other things to try and if they help it's probably reflux u are dealing with.  look on the colic/reflux board and check out some of the sticky's to get more info.  let me know how lo is doing...oh and i do agree that if your lo does have reflux it may be making it worse by something u are eating (even if it is the night before) and tummies are much more sensitive...

[momofowen]

Since he is only 3 1/2 months old, he should be waking about 2 times at night.  This is normal.  I would suggest that you find out from the daycare provider what the nap schedules are like for the infants..  Then yo ucna alter his sleeping to help with that.  It could very well be that he is over tired..

Now, for his sleeping at night, you pat shh... that is fantastic!  Lets work on if DH was able to get him to sleep then maybe he should be the one at night if he wakes at a non feeding time.  This way your Lo does not associate you with feeding, thus waking and snuggle time. 

what time are you going to have to get up to get to work?  is is possible tha tyo ucan get him up i nthe early houses with you and then let him nap in the car on the way to dacare -- how many hours will he be in DC?  I hope this has helped a bit - but I would say that if you stick to a 4 hour feeding schedule then he should wake twice at night, any other waking will be handled by DH, with PAT SHHH --- not taking him out of the crib... it does work very well with the DH involvement - especially with BFing moms... one other thing... if he does go to bed at 8--- what is his bedtime routine?  put him down to sleep- then if he wakes before an 11PM dream feed - have DH go in...  DF at 11 -  that should bring you to about 3 am...  feed him and right back to sleep.  then he will wake about 6 or 7...  HTH`

[Sarah J]

Hello there

just wanted to let you know that i have had similar experiences with my 4 month old.  he has always slept very well but it went wonky about two weeks following a very obvious growth spurt and i couldnt figure out what the matter could be. 
with some help from the members here and of course the benefit of hind sight i think it was probably that the growth spurt has continued coupled with a very active development phase. 
he was very distracted and agitated through his daytime feeds... too much going on and would get quite frustrated with boring old eating and would get on much better at night with no other distractions and already feeling drowsy.  (he hadnt had a meal at night since he was about 5 weeks old) of course that meant that his feeding pattern was beginning to reverse.  i try to make sure to take him somewhere very quiet to feed him through the day too.
he seemed to wake at other times in the night and just make noises or move around his cot - practising his new rolling over skills etc. lots of other mums had also posted that they had the same at this age - good sleepers going wonky -  has your lo learned some new skills that might need practising at 3 am?? he would do this for a while and then seemingly get bored playing by himself and start to fuss.  we had problems getting him back to sleep and would be at it for a couple of hours some nights. 
i was told that growth sputs can come and go and now i look at my situation and my ds weight gain i figure that it could be the case!!!
 
he is still extra hungry at this point but his sleeping is improving at night.  his naps all still wonky though and he seems more prone to a melt down if i try to extend them... there is too much for him to see and do and i dont think he wants to spend any time sleeping...... 
just to confuse things, this all happened when i had just settled nicely into a four hour easy schedule so i too was questioning the finer points of the routine and considering reverting back to three hour easy.....!!!
hope this helps.....
good luck!!!!

[darbie]

Sarah,

Thanks so much for your reply.  It's definitely helpful to hear about your experiences.  I guess I should give up on the notion that when we make some sleeping progress that it won't ever regress.

I am still puzzled as to what is going on with my lo.  We've had too many things going on at once I think, a growth spurt, trying to transition to a 4-hour easy, maybe a cold with some congestion and coughing.  Anyway, I stopped trying to extend his awake time during the day in an attempt to transition to the 4-hour easy and am just trying to follow his cues again.  I don't think he's quite ready to stay awake long enough for this and didn't want to push him when I thought he wasn't feeling well.  We've had some great napping days lately, but the night is still rough.  He definitely has his days and nights switched when it comes to eating. 

He is still not nursing well during the day and is pulling off the breast.  He'll act hungry, but then won't nurse for long.  He has stopped screaching and crying when he pulls off, so this is an improvement, but he has been coughing and sputtering as if he's choking on my milk, and has spit up a couple of times which he has almost never done, so I've been wondering about a physical problem as well (like the dysphagia discussed on the reflux board).  Or maybe like you said it's developmental, or just gas, I really don't know.  He ate great late in the day yesterday when he was very drowsy (of course I was feeding shortly before a nap so I don't want to do this too often).  I'm hoping it is develomental and that if I continue to try and get him to eat in a relaxing environment during the day, he'll start to eat more.  Also, I may try to feed him less when he wakes up hungry during the night so he'll be hungrier the next day, although I'm afraid this may just cause him to wake even more frequently.  I haven't been doing the df either, since he goes to bed around 7:00 and doesn't make it until 10:00 usually before waking hungry.  I hope this improves before I return to work in a week!

Thanks again,
Darbie

[teezee]

i don't want to be bothersome at all, but reading your post over again, especially when u mention the sputtering and coughing that's what my lo used to do when her reflux wasn't taken care of.  maybe your lo doesn't have it that bad - but it might be something to check into..and i'm not saying to put your lo through all kinds of evasive testings, just maybe talk to your dr about these things (make a list) and see what dr says...just to be sure your lo isn't having any unnessicary pain. 

[darbie]

Thanks, that's not bothersome at all.  As the days go on, I'm beginning to think it may be some mild reflux.  I was at the doctor not long ago and I also called the phone nurse line at my doctors office.  Since he's not really spitting up they keep telling me it's gas and that I should use gas drops and try burping him longer, but I'm a little annoyed that this is the only response I seem to be getting.  I don't believe it's gas, although he does give some good burps many times.  I have tried the gas drops, but they seem to make no ifference.  I did get a wedge for the crib since I figured this couldn't hurt for reflux, or congestion, etc.  I may make a post on the reflux board and get more input from others.  I might also try another doctor, or just try to do some things to help alleviate the problem if it is reflux, including watching what I'm eating more closely.  If it's a mild case of reflux, medication may not be the answer, but I sure would like to make him more comfortable, and it would be nice if we could all sleep a little better.  Thanks for you help.

[teezee]

my lo hardly EVER has spit up either - it's what is called 'silent reflux' which is why a lot of people will say nothing is wrong, it's colic, or it's gas.  along with reflux my lo DID have extremely bad gas also.  when u are burping your lo don't pat the back, instead try just rubbing the left side of the back in an upward or clockwise motion.  this will work without really bothering what's inside your lo's tummy.  good luck and let me know how things are going!

[mummoore]

Thanks everyone,
It's really interesting reading all your postings on this subject.  This sounds exactly what has been happening to my Lo over the last few days, causing me great concern as to why she is not taking a good feed during the day.  She has been on for 5 mins max probably less...seconds to minutes.  Then does the arching of the back and screams. She also started waking at 2-3am again which she had just recently stopped doing. I cant think of anything we had done differently.  We thought she suffered from reflux when she was tiny, but it seemed to calm down.  She is also spitting up more often and it is quite watery, then sometimes cottage cheesy!  This is so worrying when she isn't eating much to start with.
Despite this she has just taken a really good sleep feed. So it seems to be just day time feeding that has gone wrong and messed up the 3 hour routine.  I was in tears today because of it so sympathise completely with you.

So thanks to everyone who has posted here, it has made me feel a lot better after a stressful long day.

Jackie

[teezee]

glad we could help hun - we are always here if u ever need anything.  let us know how u guys are progressing