1 Nap and Night Waking

[dbymom]

For months now, my now 18 month old has been transitioning to one nap but started waking up at night. No crying, just playing for 2 hours every night- sometimes longer, sometimes less. She'll only sleep an hour or so during the day(longer once in awhile if we're lucky). She used to fall asleep right away for her nap and bedtime, but now it is taking her over an hour to fall asleep for her nap and usually an hour at bedtime too- but still no crying. The past few weeks have also included a few days with no nap at all. If anyone has any suggestions, we'd love some help. We've tried everything, super early bed time, later bedtime, different nap times and also just being consistent with the same times. Please help!

[imsmum]

Your situation sounds just like mine!  My dd chatters away for hours when she wakes at night.  I have a post--"17 mos old-night waking/early waking/short nap!"  that sets out all the not so nice details! :lol:
2 thoughts: She's probably overtired by bedtime because of the short nap.  You could try wake to sleep to extend naps.  She may be "stuck" on that 1 hour nap.   I saw some really good posts on wake to sleep for naps recently--I think they may have been in the Sleep forum under Napping.
Is she still managing to sleep through on occasion?  Maybe on those days you could watch her for sleepy signs and put her down later for her nap like in the Sticky about the 23 mos old no napper.  From what you said  about her going down later when she started sleeping through the night it sounds like she could use the later naptime.  What did you do with bedtimes when she went for the later nap? 
So you found the consistent naptime helped with the nightwakings initally?  You've inspired me to try this.  What did you do with bedtimes and wakeups when you did this?
I hate to say this but I'm so relieved to find someone with the same problem! :lol:

[dbymom]

I can't believe someone has the same problem! I thought for sure we were the only ones! We're managing to get a few nights a week where she sleeps through but there isn't any sort of pattern to her waking at all. I think she is just too tired to sleep anymore. She can't ever settle herself unless she crashes. Today she was up at 5:30am(was asleep last night by 7:30) and would not take a nap. She crashed by a little after 5 tonight. We've tried being consistant with the same times hoping she's adjust herself but no luck. Worked for awhile, then she started waking up again for some reason. I think i'm too scared to try wake to sleep since she has such a hard time resettling herself. Our luck now it would completely backfire! Are you having any luck on your end?

[Petunia]

I don't know if this will help or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

When we were going through the transition to one nap we had a terrible time as well: night waking, no naps, overtiredness, unpredictable betimes and naptimes.  I read that book The No Cry Sleep Solution.  And while it was of only a little help overall one piece of advice that stood out and helped us was this: Make sure they get their daytime sleep if you want to fix their nighttime sleep.  Do whatever it takes to make sure they get their naps, and long enough ones!!  I was doubtful, because I was doubtful about everything at that point.  Nothing seemed to be working.  (And not only that but wouldn't that undo all the work I had been doing with BW and getting him to put himself to sleep?)  But I tried it.  I rocked my overtired toddler to sleep at an appropriate time for his one nap a day (about five hours after he woke up) because that was the only way to get him to sleep.  Otherwise, he just cried and carried on like he'd never known how to put himself down for a nap before.  It took about three days of giving him his much needed naps before his nighttime sleep started settling in.  I think there was a week or two of tweaking after that, but we've had smooth sailing ever since.  I didn't have to rock him to sleep for naps or bedtime anymore because he was getting enough sleep every day and could settle himself down.  I think what she says in that book is that when your kids get chronically overtired there is just no way that they go down to sleep or sleep long enough for themselves. 

[Harrisonsmummy]

I am following this thread with interest because sounds like my situation too, night wakings for 2 hours, early mornings (just posted gradual withdrawal/walk in walk out). I have really tried with the daytime sleep because I too read Elizabeth Pantley, but I persisted with the two naps and so far hasn't really made much difference, so I am blaming teeth....

Petunia, how long was your lo sleeping initially with the one nap? Did you try and extend it - I am walking about for hours trying to keep DS asleep, but this is probably self defeating?

[imsmum]

finally some success--two nights no(real) nightwaking!  As I set out in my post"17 mos old--night waking/early waking/short naps"  dd was getting so overtired on one nap that she was having trouble settling herself at night and would be awake for up to 4 hours at a time when she woke in the night.  Dh and I finally started going in and putting out hand on her to help her settle and she started going down easier and earlier and would still wake at night but "only" for 1 1/2 hours.  what seems to have made the difference with us was we also just started putting dd down super early with winddown starting at 6 she would be asleep between 6:30 and 6:45.  With the new early bedtime she didn't need any help settling. She woke for about 3 nights still for 2  hours but then would go back to sleep unitl 7:30 so she was still getting 11 hours sleep.  Then 2 nights ago she woke very briefly at 12 and got herself right back down.  Yesterday though she only had about 1 hour of a fitful nap because she has a cold/cough.  As a result I put her down and she fell asleep at 6pm!  She slept until 5:45 no wakeups!  What do I do now though--her usual nap time is around 12 but that is when she was waking around 7-7:30.  Should I try for the same or  say, 1/2 hour earlier?  I know trying to keep to a schedule is important but I find if she naps too late re: her wakeup time she has trouble getting down at night.  And now that she (hopefully) is sleeping better should I try to keep naptime the same or later? Any advice?
So dbymom--I agree with Petunia--do what you can right now to improve sleep--day and night--don't be afraid to  intervene or  try an super early bedtime, as these seem to correct themselves once they've become better rested .  This approach certainly has improved our situation although we're obviously not out of the woods yet.
Petunia---thanks for the great advice!  Just curious as to what tweaking you did once  your ds started showing some improvement as that seems to be the point we're at now and I don't want to blow it!   

[Petunia]

ummm...I am trying to remember what I did exactly.  I'm afraid all I can give is vague answers.  Once we left that stage I was so glad I didn't look back!

Harrison's Mummy:
Ok, I do remember that he did do the crazy one-hour-nap thing several times while we were straightening things out.  I tried to rock him back to sleep but to no avail.  If he wasn't back asleep in fifteen minutes I just let him be awake.  But, I would rock him for bedtime at least an hour earlier.  Once he started getting more sleep overall for several days in a row he finally settled into a regular 2 hour nap.  At least that's how I remember it.

imsmum:
You are right on about the super early bedtime thing by the way!  I remember reading that in No Cry too: that many children really need to be in bed by 6:00 or 7:00 but their parents unwittingly keep them up and then they get overtired.
I think the 'tweaking' involved actually getting into a routine again because he was all over the map the first couple of days and ended up, once he settled into a regular sleep pattern, making his own routine with a very early wake time in the morning.  He was finally getting all the sleep he needed total in the day, but he was doing it at bad times for me.  But I also think some of the tweaking had to do with a day that he would nap for just one hour (arg!) and having to cope with that.
As for the nap...I would say to make it about five hours after her wake-up.  If she's getting up around 6 then she should nap around 11.  This would also mean she was getting up earlier from her nap and would be more ready for bedtime at 6:30.  But that's just what I did.

This stage confirmed for me what no one ever told me and I did not know: that you are just not guaranteed a full night's sleep during your child's first two years.  Not that you'll never get a full night's sleep, but that just because you have been doesn't mean you'll continue to get one.  I would have dealt with night wakings with much more patience from the very beginning if I had but known...

[Petunia]

I got this from the Sleep forum.  It's what I used as my guidline when solving this crazy sleep stage.  Maybe it would help you to know if your LO is getting enough sleep overall.

sleep needs...keep in mind every child is different.

1 year old:
Night: 11.5 hours;
Day: 2.25 hours - 2 naps, 1 of 1 hour and 1 of 1.25 hours;
Total: 13.75 hours

18 months old:
Night: 11.5 hours;
Day: 2 hours - 1 nap;
Total: 13.5 hours

2 years old:
Night: 11.5 hours;
Day: 1.5 hours - 1 nap;
Total: 13 hours

[NicoleW]

can i just jump in quickly?
petunia, i'm interestedi n what you said about getting their daytime sleep. mydd is 16mo's and has been sleeping 14hrs at night for 6mo.s two nice naps and now we are transitioning to one nap. the nap is only an HOUR, she has started waking at night and haveing early wakeups. the first early wakeup was today but i got her back to sleep. my daughter has maybe woken up 4times in the last 6mo's...so i'm a bit discouraged.
she is getting some molars so that doesn't help, but i really think its b/c she's over tired. Petunia, how do i get her sleep in the day if she only sleeps an hour? rocking her wont' get her back to sleep. should i be trying for another 30min nap in the afternoon ? or will that ruin chances of her 1hr nap getting longer?

HELP!
thanks ladies!
Nicole

[shawneam]

I'm interested in this too - having all kinds of sleep problems with DD who is 17 mos - lots of nightwakings/trouble going down. If she wakes up after an hour long nap, I've tried to get her back down, but no success. Like Nicole said, do I put her down for another nap a little later to try and "catch up" and get more daytime sleep?

I've heard all kinds of "time frames" for being up (anywhere from 4-6 hours before a nap/bedtime)  We have been putting DD down for a nap (trying to be consistant with the times) approx. 6 hours after she wakes up in the morning is when she goes down for a nap. It is about 5 hours from the time she wakes up from a nap to when we are putting her down to bed:

Day is like this:

6:00 AM - wake up (this isn't consistant though, due to early wake up/nightwakings, etc - some I'm trying to fix this with naps)
12:00 PM - Nap
1 - 1:30 PM - Wakes up (most of the time)
6:15 PM - start bedtime routine
6:30 - 6:45 PM in bed
6:45 - 7:15 PM - asleep (sometimes earlier)

I'm I waiting too long to put her down each time? What is a good time frame??  Am I making her overtired?

Thanks!
shawnea

[Petunia]

Hmmm...Nicole
(disclaimer: I do not consider myself a sleep expert  But I'll give your question a shot.)

My first thought, honestly, was: Wow!  Her daughter sleeps a lot!  14 hours at night plus two naps: amazing!  Soooo...I would think that if she is still getting around 12 hours of sleep a night, that she probably doesn't need any more than an hour long nap.  According to that sleep information, most children her age need around 13.5 hours of sleep total in one day.  Maybe she's done with sleeping a lot and is progessing to a lesser amount that is still adequate?

One more thought on this is something I remember another mom telling me when I was going through the sleep problems with my son.  She said her child slept 14 hours at night and didn't nap at all during the day.  As long as he got in his 14 hours at night he was fine.  I've heard this before too from another mom.  So it's not unheard of, just not usual.  Maybe your daughter is trying to do something like that?

The last thought has to do with the teething.  Does she need some pain relief in the middle of the night maybe?  Is she eating enough during the day?  My son didn't cut his first tooth until he was around 15 months (can't remember if it was 14 or 16 mo - good thing I wrote it down).  He had four coming in all at once.  He just couldn't eat enough calories during the day because his poor gums just bothered him.  (I guess I could have just given him tylenol all the time for a whole month while he cut his teeth but I did not want to do this.)  So I knew when he woke up in the middle of the night that he was hungry.  He just hadn't had enough to eat during the day.  He couldn't be settled by any means either.  (I happened to be tracking his food intake because he was underweight and we were watching him, so I noticed right away when this became a pattern.)  I tried everything I could to get him to eat, or drink more milk, during the day but he still would only consume so much.  So I started giving him a cup of milk at his night waking.  He took it, went back to sleep easily, and that was it.  I hesitate to mention this because I think a lot of moms might disagree with me.  Indeed every baby book I have says, "They do not need a night feeding at this age."  But I feel like I was using common sense and not just "throwing milk at him to get him back to sleep."  He did and still does settle himself just fine if awakened at night.  In other words the milk did not become a prop.  He is now 19 months and cutting 7 teeth (!), 4 of them molars, and we are going through the same thing again.  He can only make it for 8 hours sleeping before he needs something.  This time though, I'm just giving him a mix of 1/4 milk with 3/4 water since I think I can get him to start eating more during daylight with a little more planning and persistence.  He's a little older, has gained the needed weight, and a better eater.  Just a thought, and maybe it would help.