Author Topic: how to tank up a bf baby  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline x95stocchier

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how to tank up a bf baby
« on: April 06, 2006, 15:47:15 pm »
My lo (4 mo) is very good at letting me know when he's not hungry (either turn away from breast and fuss if I offer when not hungry, or latch on let go, latch on let go.)  How can I tank him up during the day when he doesn't seem interested  to eat any more (until night!)  He's on about 3 1/2 hour easy.
THANKS!
Sarah
Sarah

Offline daisymelan

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 18:51:59 pm »
Wow, that's a toughie.  I don't really know what you should do. 

Is there a reason for your concern?  Night wakings maybe?

Maybe a cluster feed in the evening would help.  You would just need to shorten down the routine a little near the end of the day if that is the case. 
Mom to O (July 20/05) and L (Dec 25/06)

Offline x95stocchier

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 19:06:32 pm »
Yes, night wakings is the problem (as many as 3 times)

he's on basically a 3 1/2 hour EASY.  He usually eats 4 times in the day
up and feed at 7:30
11
2:30
6
bed at 7
Then he wakes up 8 or 9, 11 or 12, 3 or 4   That's almost as many night feedings as day feedings.  I've tried some things BWSAYP suggests, like feed a little more 1 hour after the feeding, but he won't have it.

If I shorten routine at end of day, are we looking at say feed at 2, then 4, then 6 to get one more in?

Thanks for your reply!
Sarah

Offline daisymelan

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 19:36:38 pm »
Cluster feeding is not usually a long term solution, it's usually used during a growth spurt. 

Do you do a dreamfeed, I think I would just consider the first night feed a df.

What is BWSAYP? 

Also, this may seem a little backwards, but is your lo ready to adopt a longer routine, closer to every four hours?  The reason I suggest this is because the longer time between feeds encourages longer, bigger feeds.  But if your lo isn't ready to adjust for that, then that definately isn't the solution. 

I would think 2 night wakings is perfectly normal.  One would be the dreamfeed, then a night feed, even three night feeds would be fine.  I think your lo is doing ok if he he settles easily once he is fed.  It might not be what you want to hear, but I'm afraid it is so.  I am going to use a excerpt from what Emma, another mod has posted before.

Scher A. A longitudinal study of night waking in the first year.
Child Care Health Dev 1991 Sep-Oct;17(5):295-302.

Abstract: A longitudinal study of the development of sleep patterns addressed the issue of continuity and change in night waking in the course of the first year. Mothers of 118 infants, who took part in a follow-up study of normal babies, completed a sleep questionnaire at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months. Regular night waking was a common characteristic throughout the first year:

Baby's age % babies waking at night
3 months 46%
6 months 39%
9 months 58%
12 months 55%


I hope this eases your mind a bit.  Unfortunately, it doesn't do much for the sleep situation.  I will pm a sleep mod to see what she thinks... she also is a breastfeeding mama.
Mom to O (July 20/05) and L (Dec 25/06)

Offline teezee

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 20:17:11 pm »
cluster feeding as jodie mentioned is an option...i  know of many people that have used it long term and had it work, although i think that long term it creates more of a snacking habit than anything else kwim? but that is an option to try if you choose to. anyway, i definately think that if you were to go to a 4 hr routine that it will help lo take more calories during the day as lo will be hungrier when feeding time comes, thus taking in more milk, he will be able to last longer between feedings and hopefully it will at least limit the night feedings. it def is completely normal for a lo to be waking at night for a feeding at this age - for as many mom's that say their lo's 'sleep through the night' i can guarantee it's almost always not as great as they make it sound so def don't feel like your lo isn't 'normal' with these wakings. if you are having a hard time adjusting to a 4 hr routine b/c it sleep will fall into eating times, etc. then don't hesitate to alter your routine slightly to be aeasy or whatever you need to get it to work - the important thing here is that you have a routine so lo knows what to expect. also, as long as lo is thriving and gaining weight, i see no problem if you want to give lo some water right before a nap so that he will sleep through and not wake b/c of hunger, and when he wakes up from the nap the water is digested much quicker than milk and he will be ready for a full feeding.

as far as the df is concerned, if lo is waking at 8 or 9pm so soon after being fed, i would just take that as a habit being formed as i am pretty sure he isn't hungry that quickly. some sleep training..shh and/or pat, perhaps pu/pd..but above all i would first try and settle and help lo get back to sleep in the crib. if lo doesn't settle, be sure it is not gas/tummy troubles/etc b/c if it is then lo needs your care and comfort. for the df, if lo is waking at 11 or 12 then why don't you try a df at say 10:30? that way it may deter the wakeup if he's not hungry...the idea for the df is that lo stays asleep while feeding. it can be tricky and hard to 'train' lo to stay asleep but it can work!  it may take a handful of times for lo to catch on, but just gently pick him up and feed til he stops or if the bottle is empty (if you have i pump i would express and bottle feed for this in the beginning - i found it very hard to just bf for the df and keep my lo asleep...it can work but is harder - i would spend sometimes an hr rubbing her mouth with my nipple trying not to wake her..although with time it did work the easier way to start it i think would be by bottle if possible), tracy suggests that burping isn't necessary with a df as if lo is sleeping will be relaxed enough that he will not need to burp, then lie him back down in the crib. if lo does happen to wake during the feeding, don't make eye contact, be sure the room is dark, don't talk...just show him this is feeding time and then back to bed.

so def like jodie said move to a 4 hr easy - i think that will help a lot - and if lo can't make it all the way to 4 hrs extend it by 10 or 15 min every few days til you get there. good luck and if you have anymore questions - i am here!
Tawnya
Mommy to Alecksandria
June 11, 2005




Offline Carter'sMama

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 01:21:34 am »
Hi there!

I actually used cluster feeding and tanking up until my lo was almost 5 months!!  I would feed on a 4 hour schedule during the day and then after the mid after noon feed I would add 2 more feeds in.  Example bf at 7:00am, 11:00am, 3:00pm, 5:30pm and then 8:00pm for a bed time of 8:30.  I know it is kind of a late bed time but he woudl go to sleep then and sleep until 7:00am every night (until he hit 7 months and teething  ::)).  I also started (when he was 6 weeks old, ironically the same time he started sleeping 10 hour stretches at night hmmm  :)) giving him a bottle of expressed milk before the final bf of the day.  Dh would give it so that he could spend some quality time with him (DH loved doing it!!) and I would only give about 2-3oz each night.  I am certain it helped him sleep through the night but who knows!!

He is now a year old and I still give him a bottle at night!  I just dropped his bedtime bf last week  :'( and he didn't seem to miss it too much partly, I think, because he was so used to getting his bottle.  When I stopped the cluster feeding it was when I was also introducing  more solids in a day so he didn't need the extra feed anymore.  I just started giving him supper instead of the extra feed. 

Figuring out sleeping and eating have got to be the most complex and frustrating things for any parent!  Good luck and let us know what happens!!
Cathy - Mama to:
Carter Luke - March 29, 2005
Mason Henry - April 7, 2007
Daphne Catherine Grace - May 30, 2010



Offline x95stocchier

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 17:04:54 pm »
Well, thank you all for your replies. 

last night he woke at 9:20, so I pat-shhh assuming he was not really hungry, then df at 10:30.  I think he sort of woke up because he hadn't been back to sleep very long.

THEN, he woke up at 1:20, then 4!  So I fed at 1:20, and at 4 I shh-pat and at 5:10 he was up again, so I decided he was really hungry and fed him again.

so even though I did a df, he added another wake in the mix.  Does it take a while for the df to start making a difference, or should I cut my losses and go back to the old schedule?

Since I was usually awake for the 9 wake up, that was only 2 more wakings, which really I could deal with fine.  But I started to worry when I read BW because she says there is no reason a 4 mo old can't sleep though, and he's done 6 and 7 hour stretches back at 2 mo, but quit around 3 mo.  I'm afraid continuing too many night feeds will encourage the behavior, and he'll never take more during the day. 

But honestly, 2 nw was not killing me.  When you night feed, do you let them nurse to sleep, or do you try to still put them down awake?  (outside of the df)

Thanks!
Sarah
Sarah

Offline teezee

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2006, 03:42:06 am »
i would stick out the df for about 5 days to a week and if you don't get any favorable results then forget it. maybe in a month or so if you still have problems or begin to have problems again you MAY want to experiment with it again...lo's can be finicky that way - responding better to things after some time kwim?

when lo is having night feeds def put lo down sleeping - no need to encourage waking at this time - unless you enjoy even bigger challenges ;).  when exactly did the wakings occur? could it be more habit (could be if the wakings started near/around the time of the 3 month growth spurt?)
Tawnya
Mommy to Alecksandria
June 11, 2005




Offline lele

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2006, 03:58:30 am »
Hi Sarah-
This is kind of what has already been said but I just wanted to add... if you want your lo to eat more during the day then they need to eat less at night too.  If they are used to getting some calories during the night then they won't take them in the day.  If you feed less at night your lo will start to make up for it during the day.  If he is healthy and growing then it won't hurt him even if it takes him a few days to get it figure out, you know what i mean?  My lo is 4 1/2 months and i have noticed that on the nights when she eats more she doesn't eat as much the next day.
Also, i do a breastfed DF everynight so like was said, it is possible to do a DF from the breast. And yes, you have to stick with a DF for a while to see if it is going to work.
If you would like you can pop in on the Nov/Dec thread and chat with us other moms with lo's of the same age.  There is a lot of talk about night waking, bf, tanking up, etc.  ;) It is in the E.A.S.Y. forum under birthclubs.  Good luck!
Sweet Boy- Nov. 1, 2003

Sweet Baby Girl- Nov. 18, 2005

Offline x95stocchier

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2006, 14:16:27 pm »
Thanks for all your advice.

I have been successful at getting him to df asleep from the breast, which is good news.  I also like that feed because it's quiet, calm and sweet.

We are going away for 5 days for Easter, so I think I will drop it off for now and try again when we get back. 

To answer some questions
Quote (selected)
when exactly did the wakings occur? could it be more habit (could be if the wakings started near/around the time of the 3 month growth spurt?)

Yes, I think it started around 3 mo growth spurt, so maybe he's hanging on to them still ???

Quote (selected)
  If they are used to getting some calories during the night then they won't take them in the day.

I have defiantly noticed this.  He doesn't eat well the days after he eats more at night.  I'm scared to try to stretch him to a 4 hr EASY---afraid it will make things worse...(like you said, he's not going to starve, even if he takes a few days to figure it out) so again, I think I will try that when we get back also.  Wish me luck!  I'll let you know how it's going next week.

One more question....on a bf baby's nw...how do you determine if it really is hunger, or just habit?  Last night he woke at 10, 1:30, 4, 6.......

Thanks for the tip on the birth club forums.  I hadn't noticed them and will defiantly check them out!
Sarah

Offline teezee

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Re: how to tank up a bf baby
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2006, 14:24:43 pm »
generally if you settle lo to sleep and they wake within an hr you can determine it is hunger (seeing as you have narrowed down all other possible problems...pain, teething, gas...etc). from how lo woke i would assume that it's not hunger related.  if you do get lo on 4 hr easy (stretch out slowly 15 min every few days so it won't be traumatic in any way for lo), it WILL help lo and may even clear up night wakings (for the most part).  i had a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept myself when first starting to stretch it out for my dd, but it is true and works wonders.  if lo's wait longer to eat, their bellies are more empty and they are able to take in more food, which will last them longer (day and night!) and may help with the wakings b/c of it kwim? and i also wanted to mention that if you have started the df it would probably be a good idea to continue with it as you don't want to confuse your lo - always, always, stay consistant - it is so important for the lo - but you will make whatever choice is best for you for the time being :) good luck with everything!
Tawnya
Mommy to Alecksandria
June 11, 2005