how do i get my spirited 11 wk old to settle himself?

[dougal]

i'm really not sure what to do about this and i've tried a few different things... my very spirited little boy wakes at about 2am each night and shouts, coughs, grunts, pulls his hair, pokes his eyes, waves his arms and kicks his legs! he cries out, but nothing like the hungry cries he does in the day.
i've tried to put his dummy in, shush him, pat him, and feed him and he takes anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes of breastfeeding.
we swaddle him really tightly which he hates, but if we don't he works himself into a frenzy.
my question is should i go in as soon as i hear him and reswaddle him and try to settle him or should i leave him in the hope he'll resettle himself. i've left him for an hour before and he was just the same. i just don't know what to do. he's the same with his day naps and only sleeps for 45 minutes at a time despite my efforts to calm him and settle him.

[teezee]

ok well have you heard of the aussie swaddle? it works great for spirited ones as it is still snug but gives a little more room for lo's to move. directions are found at the top of the general sleep forum.

could you post your lo's routine? could lo not be tired enough to sleep or overtired before sleep? if lo is not tired enough then he won't sleep past sleep cycles and wake in the night wide awake...if he's overtired he can't get through sleep cycles b/c he's jolting awake and at night in a very restless sleep...also i know at that age i couldn't do shh pat with my dd, i had to do either the shhing or the patting.

[dougal]

Sorry for the delay in replying-Here's our routine that we usually stick to give or take 10 to 15 minutes:

7am Breast Feed for 40mins

7.45am Activity - lying in cot watching mobile, changing clothes, play with me talking to him

8.30am Sleep - I darken room, put on soft music, wrap him in blanket and sit with him with his dummy in. He screams as if he really isn't tired, then all of a sudden his eyes are closed, and i try to get him into his cot before he's asleep

9.15am Wakes up fusses, not necessarily crying and i keep him occupied until i feed him

9.45am Breast Feed for 30 mins

10.15am Activity - playing on mat on floor, playgym, me talking and playing with him

11am Sleep - routine as above

11.45am Wake up, again as above.

1pm Feed 5/6 oz - LO getting sleepy and wants to fall asleep

1.20pm Activity  - can usually only manage 10/15 minutes

1.30pm Sleep

2.15pm wake up, again as above

4pm Breast feed for 30 minutes, but falling asleep at breast

4.30pm Activity in doughnut or chair whilst i'm getting tea ready

5.30pm Cat nap for 30 minutes

6pm Activity - dad comes home to play quietly, bath, massage

7pm 5/6oz bottle feed

7.30pm Sleep

10.30 Dream feed of about 4/6 oz

2am Wakes up doesn't cry but wide awake. Sometimes i leave him to settle whch he doesn't and i feed him about 3.30 am, other times i swaddle him and put dummy back in and shush him until he nods off but he doesn't really settle until i feed him about 3.30 am.

Sorry it's quite an epic tale!! I'm also trying to get him to miss the 3am feed,and have tried to get him to trake more feed in the day, but as he's so sleepy at feeding times he's just not interested.

I have tried to put him down to sleep awake, but he kicks, grunts and tries to get his arms free. All the activity just gets him more worked up. I'm not looking forward to sleep times when he learns to roll over!

Maybe he's just a baby that only needs 45 minutes sleep at a time? Is he having too much? Am i putting him to bed too early and expecting miracles?

Really hope you can help - Thanks

[tjteems]

I don't have any answers, but am dealing with almost the same exact issues and schedule with my spirited 8wo.  The part that troubles me the most is the 2:30am waking with 3:30 feed. . .just as you described.  My lo can be hard to get back to sleep in the night too with lots of grunting and squirming.
I look forward to any insight others can offer!  I'll also add. . .if I try to extend daytime waketime as some people have suggested, she gets so overtired that she has even more trouble settling for the next nap.

[teezee]

i think that if you extend the A times a little bit that you will be closer to success with the 45 min naps as lo will be more tired and able to stay asleep longer...if not try shh pat or just shhing or just patting to help lo get through the sleep cycle and stay asleep - or you could try wake to sleep if lo's wake up times are consistant. if your lo isn't getting 'quality' rest/sleep during the day than lo will have fitful sleep at night as he will be overtired.

could be your lo is going or about to be going through a growth spurt and that 'could' account for some extra wakings.

[dougal]

Thanks for that. I think i'll try to extend the activity time and see what happens. I've been trying to go 'by the book' and watch for his first signs of tiredness and then put him down. But, i have no idea what he's like when he's getting tired as i usually put him down when he first starts to yawn.

I have tried to shush him through the sleep cycle but it doesn't make a difference.

Also in answer to the growth spurt - he's been like this since he first started to find his fingers. At least for 5 weeks.

Do you think if we get the daytime sleep sorted, he'll sleep longer at night? He's 15llbs by the way so i would have thought he wouldn't need a night feed by now. What do you think? My thought was that he had too much sleep in the day and thats why he is wide awake at night.


TJTeems  -let me know how you get on and if you find something that works. Have you tried the aussie swaddle?

[teezee]

when my lo was smaller i did the same thing and after months  i finally realized that just b/c my lo yawned did not mean she was tired already...lesson learned..all lo's are different kwim...so a yawn for one lo may work but rubbing eyes is an indication for another lo, and some lo's you just have to watch their demeanor in general kwim?!

you could def start moving towards a 3.5hr easy from 3hrs. it seems as if your lo would be ok with that and that in itself may help iron out some issues - taking more at a feeding as lo will be more hungry, food will last longer in lo's belly, will be right in line with extending A times also...days affect nights just as nights affect days also they go hand in hand. have you tried wake to sleep at all? what is your lo's demeanor? could you be needing to try swaddling - maybe an aussie swaddle would work for you??

[dougal]

I tried the Aussie swaddle yesterday afternoon and he slept for 1 3/4 hours!! Didn't want to get too excited until i see if it works all of the time. I will also try to extend his feeding times as well and see how that goes.

I did get him through 'til 4.15 am last night by keep putting his dummy in from 3am. I'm hoping it may make him go longer and get into a routine. Do you think this will work?

Anyway, i have thought about wake to sleep but wasn't sure if he's in a routine or just hungry as he wakes any time from 1.30am to 3am. Do you think it's worth a try? Do you wake them up fully?

[teezee]

wts is more if they are having wakings at the same time - for night sleeping you do it an hr before the usual wake up time - i have heard many successes but haven't tried it myself.

at 3 months there is a growth spurt so if after settling lo you get another waking within an hr or so then i would feed as lo is more than likely hungry at that point. i am kinda in a rush so i don't have time to look back right now - are you dfing or cluster feeding at all? as this would probably help...is lo taking a full feeding at night when you do feed? if not, have you ruled out EVERYTHING??...gas, discomfort, pain....

[dougal]

I've just put a desperate post on the support for spirited baby thread as he is now waking up and definatley doesn't want to go back to sleep. Last night it took me 1 1/2 hours to get him back to sleep after his feed at 3am. I wonder if i should leave him to play to hopefully go back off himself, but he gets himself so wound up that i doubt it, any ideas? Do you think its possible that as we play after feeds in the day he thinks it's the same at night? I don't play with him or chat to him.

In answerto your question, we have now moved onto 3 1/2 hour easy, although its easae, and feed at 7.30am, 11am, 2.30pm, 6pm and dream feed at 10.30, then theres his wake up feed at 3 am. I have tried to cluster feed him but he then doesn't take much of his dream feed. He takes between 5 - 8 oz per feed, and really won't take more than what he wants even when i really persevere.

Any help gratefully accepted.

[teezee]

it sounds like you are doing everything very well. it is such a challenge with spirited lo's - i was just chatting with one of the other mods who also has a spirited lo about that and how hard it is to sometimes follow advice and apply it to your lo as they are all so different - and it's hard to know what works with one spirited to the next..i had issues like that also...

what are you doing with the nightfeedings? i suggest if you aren't already doing it...keeping lights very dim, no eye contact, no talking, def swaddle...when/if lo's are going through a growth spurt it 'can' affect sleep and hopefully this is it and it will kind of just regulate itself.

if you would like to post your routine now that it is adjusted and clearly show how long A times and nap times are, bedtime routine, etc. maybe i can spot something...hope they help over there with some more suggestions on the spirited support.

[JenB1974]

Hi dougal,
I too have a spirited lo - he is 16 weeks and has been swaddled since I came home from hospital with him as he too has flailing arms, legs etc. Do keep persevering with the swaddlle, its been a godsend for us. MY DS is Very strong and depeniding on how his day has gone he may wake up and wriggle out of his swaddle like a mini houdini - it's so annoying. Teezee's advice of no eye contact, dim lights etc really does help. If I hear a noise I tend to spring out of bed and reswaddle lo quickly in a kind of business-like manner - no messing, then I go straight back to bed. Sometimes I have been so tired I have fallen back to sleep while he has been hurgling or moaning and have been none the wiser as to his antics. As long as he's not screaming which you'd hear anyway...

Being a first time mum, I have learnt very quickly to treat every day differently and not to expect too much from these little babies. It is hard not to think they are being difficult on purpose - remember the wise words from Tracey; we are the ones who have to teach them what to do - I just take a deep breath and try!

Good luck
JenB

[dougal]

Thanks both for that - we had a good night last night and he slept through 'til 4am again!

My changed routine for the past few days is this:

7am LO awake
7.30am Breast feed for 30 - 35 mins
8.15ish Activity - nappy & clothes start wind down at 8.30 - cuddle with toy, walk around the house or garden, sing holding him, dummy & swaddle in cot.
9am Sleep - i put hands over his arms and legs and shush him til he's settled and use a muslin cloth to cover his eyes if i need to
9.30am awake & activity time - playgym with me, talking to him & playing, singing. Leave room and go back in after 15mins til he usually wakes up after 1/2 hour
11am Eat 6 - 8 oz
11.30am Activity with wind down
12.45pm Sleep as above
1.45pm awake & activity as above
2.30pm Breastfeed for 30 - 35 mins
3.15pm Activity with 1/2 hour wind down
3.45pm Sleep as aove
4.15pm Awake with activity
6pm Eat 6-8oz but now falling asleep
6.30pm Bath but very tired and unsettled
7pm Wind down and sleep but usually now screaming
10.30pm Dream feed 4-7 oz
2am Wake and breast feed for 25 mins
2.30am Swaddle and put down but have to keep going as he struggles out of swaddle
4-4.30am finally falls asleep until morning between 5.30 and 7.30

I'm hoping it gets better as all this bending over the cot is killling my back and i feel as though i'm tied to the house and his room. He is such a happy smiley baby in the morning and as the day goes on he just gets worse until he's screaming. If he only sleeps for 1/2 hour should i keep trying to get him to go back of, leave him in his cot to play of bring him down and try at the next time?

[teezee]

if things are going well i wouldn't try fixing it if isn't broken! congrats on the wonderful night - good for you!!

is lo always only sleeping for 1/2 hr for the naps? you may entertain trying wake to sleep...