How do I get 9 month old to nap in crib?

[artemis68]

My baby is 9 months old and has almost always taken naps in his hammock, (considered a prop, because it bobs him to sleep) but is now becoming too small for him.  I don't know what to do because he's on a regular, pretty smooth schedule now, and I have tried to get him to nap in his crib, but he just rolls around, stands up repeatedly and starts playing and then nap time is all over with.  I've tried layig him back down, but he just rolls over and stands up again... over and over, until he's wide awake.  Does this technique really work for naptimes, or is it just going to upset his routine?  How long does it usually take for a baby whose standing up already to fall asleep in his crib at naptime using this method?  I'm not sure whether I should pursue this, or just get a bigger hammock.
Can someone help?
alyssa

[alyssa1]

I think you're right about getting him to nap in his crib or else you will be doing the hammock forever.  Does he go to sleep at night in his crib?  If so, how do you get him to sleep?  It is never too late to change things and get him napping in his crib.  What you have to do is decide if this is what you want then you have to stick with it until he gets it or, do you want to get the bigger hammock and do it that way?
I would suggest doing the put down with wi/wo - have you read those threads??  Basically you put him in his crib after you do your routine (books/say night night/make the room dark - whatever you do) lay him down, leave the room - if he doesn't cry - don't  go back in.   If he cries, wait 5/10/15 seconds or whatever amount of time you are comfortable with, go back in, put him down and leave.  We have never been in the room when our son goes to sleep so this worked well for us.  Are you in the room when he goes to sleep?  If so, this might be more difficult.  The 1st week we did this it took 40-50min. to get him down for his nap but now he will lay down and go to sleep within 5-10 min. on his own and we lay him down and leave.  If he's not crying, let him figure it out and lay down and go to sleep - when he cries go back in and put down/leave/wait...and so on.  We would wait a few min. before we went back in and if he was just doing tired cries, we didn't go back in at all.
When does he nap? How long?  Can you post his schedule.
We also fell into the habit of allowing our son to nap in different places and so getting him to nap in his crib was no easy task but it was something we wanted so we stuck with it and now he does.  You really need to decide then stick with a method until it works.  We gave in a few times - big mistake - we had to start over.  Now, he goes down for his nap great!

[artemis68]

Thanks for the input,
I know I'm starting very late with this whole process, we have a real good routine already going, but the problem is he's getting too big for his hammock and too heavy too bounce to sleep at night, and he tends to pacify on me for 1 - 3 hours before bed.  which I'm getting tired of.
sooo... this weekend we were planning to begin our sleep training program.  But I'm just nervous about messing up an already nice schedule I guess, and also his reaction to the whole method will most likely be emotionally confusing to him.  I tried it once before at 7 months and he was so hysterical for two day I myself had a nervous breakdown, and gave up.  So I've been collecting more information and confidence to go forward.  Any important tips you'd like to share, I know the guidelines change for a 9 month old, and I don't intend to P/U P/D because that just infuriates him.  should I lay him down though when he stands up, or just let him be?

We've tried just putting him in the crib at night after nursing and letting him just go to town and do his thing, and it often takes 3-5 hours of tag teaming for him to go to sleep that way, so I'm a little sceptical as to how this is going to work, especially at nap time, he just rolls around and stands up repeatedly.  Just wanted to get some input about whether this is really successfully in getting them to sleep in a shorter time, and smoothly, it sounds like you've had success.

anyway our schedule looks like this:
7 or 7:30 wake
7:30 nurse
8:30 solids
9 or 9:30 - 11:00 nap
11:30 nurse
12:30 solids
2:00 nurse
2:30 or 3:00 - 4:30 or 5:00 nap
5:00 nurse or formula
5:30 solids
7:30 or 8:00 bedtime
usually falls asleep by 9:15, sometimes earlier, on a bad night later
most often sleeps a solid 9 - 10 hours without a feeding, usually puts himself back to sleep, sometimes needs a nurse or a bounce.

thanks for your help,
alyssa

[Lola]

I have an almost 9 month old who apparently wasn't tired enough at bed time. our routine is as follows
6:30 Wake
7:00 Eat
9:30 Nap
12:00 Eat
2:00 Nap
5:00 Eat
6:00 Quiet time
7:00 Bed
I have tried adjusting and moving it around accordingly as I have a babe who used to sleep thru and go down on her own. All of a sudden she started waking an hour after putting her down.

Is it possible that your afternoon nap time is too late? My guess would be that your afternoon nap runs too late and the babe isn't tired enough to go to sleep straight away.
Put down doesn't work for my baby-it makes her want to play more. You shouldn't do pu/pd unless the baby is distressed and crying. It does work but it sounds like maybe your babe isn't tired enough to sleep. ??

[alyssa1]

Ok that's great that you are going to get started.  Here is just a little advice - I think that your nap2 is running a little late and that's affecting bedtime.  I would strive to get that nap ealier in the day - you can cut nap1 by 15 min. allowing your lo to get tired enough for nap2 earlier or, if you don't want to do that then just try for an earlier nap2 and wake him up by 4:30 - I wouldn't let him sleep past a certain time or he won't be ready for bed at all.  Our limit is 3:30 right now to ensure 7:30 bed (he is also 16months).  So I would look at 4:30 wake up from nap2 - it's ok to wake him, this will help with bedtime.
This is what I would do for sleep in general.  I would establish a routine.  10/20 min. before nap/bed (keep it the same) begin only doing quiet activities (puzzles/books/quiet show - no loud things), you could have a little snack/drink, then do a diaper change, take him into his room and continue with quiet time (we do 3-4 books in the room), make the room dark, say night night to all stuffed toys, lay him down in his crib and leave the room.  If he gets up I would still leave.  Once you are outside the door, wait - if he doesn't cry, don't go back in.  If he cries right away - wait 5/10/15 sec. (whatever you are comfortable with - we wait a few min.) then go back in, lay him down, say night night, then leave the room.  Do the same thing over and over - decide on a wait time - we allow a few min. for our son to settle because he has never been used to us staying in the room while he sleeps - you have to decide what you want to do but, if you don't allow time then the walk out/wi isn't really effective.  I must tell you that this was really hard at first - I cried a lot and so did my son - but it was so so worth it    At first my son would continue to get up and get up and throw all his things out of his crib - but this has stopped.  He was also hysterical but eventually after a few days of doing the exact same thing he got it and now he will lay down and go to sleep on his own.  He will sometimes play in his crib for a few min. before he sleep or he will sometimes cry for a few min. (tired cry) before he sleeps but we don't go back in now.  He is able to know to lay down on his own and go to sleep.  I must tell you that if your son gets up and plays but doesn't cry - I would not go in - I would only go in if he needs you (cries hard) - then just lay him down, reassure him that's only time to sleep and leave, wait outside the door....etc. and so on.  It will work but you have to be so consistent with it - it is hard work but you have to know that you are only helping learn independent sleep habits - you are not hurting him.  My mom and husband helped me and we took turns but we all did it the same way - my mom was ready to give up and hated all the crying but I told her that we really need to get him to sleep indepedently so she agreed to stick with it.
Now anyone can put him down for a nap/bed by just doing what we do. Sure it's a little different but he knows the new routine now and he will follow it and go to sleep.  I cannot tell you what a difference this has made in our lives.  We only started doing this a few months ago so it's not too late.  Just don't give up

[artemis68]

thanks for the nap scheduling tips,
I did as you suggested today, and its worked out so far, I'll try to get him to bed earlier tonight as well.  There was a 51/2 hour gap in nursing between the 11am nurse and the 4/4:30 nurse though in the schedule you wrote up, just wondering about that.  Because he usually get hungry sooner.

alyssa, thanks for sharing your success story, it sounds like I should not lay him down when he stands up, is that right?   you were talking about the 5/10/15 second wait, does that mean you wait any one of those times, and if he starts crying hard, go in within a few seconds?
stacy just wondering when you say 7:00 bedtime, is that the time your putting him down to sleep, or that he actually falls asleep, and how long does it take your baby to fall asleep at naps and bedtime on his own.  You were saying I should go in before he starts crying, and then its only ok to leave when the crying has ceased?  Did you mean if they're doing a mantra cry that it's ok not to go in?

Should I take on naps and bedtime together, or work on one or the other first?  I was thinking of starting this Friday night with bedtime, and let my husband be with him, because he gets really upset if I'm there and I'm withholding nursing him.  It's often easier for my husband to get him to sleep.  Should I step in at a certain point to nurse him if it starts going on hours, like last time?  Like if he's still awake after 2 hours, should I nurse him and then start the process over again?  Also, is it safe to let him stand up in his crib unsupervised as long as he's playing?
By the way where in her book does tracy mention the walk in/ walk out method?  Is it in her second book?  I wasn't sure if that was published yet, I only have the first one, and it definetely focuses more on younger babies, I'd be very interested if the second book was available.

Sorry for the barage of questions,
I really appreciate all the help,
alyssa
 

[artemis68]

Hi,
you mentioned at the end of your last reply, that we would do Pu/pd, and that confused me because I thought at this stage you're not supposed to do that, or at least that's what I read unless he is inconsolable.  Isn't the wi/wo the alternative to that?


By the way, he went to sleep at 7:30 tonight!!  he woke at 9:15 (as I expected, which is his usual bedtime and I nursed him back to sleep.)  Thanks for pointing out the earlier bedtime.
what do I do later, if he wakes in the middle of the night and I'm not supposed to nurse him to sleep?  Do you keep them awake while you feed them if they're hungry, and then do the wi/wo method?  do they go back to sleep this way, he usually is upset and wants breastfeeding comfort if he does wake at night.
 Should we expect to be fairly sleepless this weekend?
alyssa

[KellyC]

Hi

Sorry I haven't read the whole post but Stacy asked me to post this link to a thread explaining walk in / walk out;

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=57132.30

Kelly x

[alyssa1]

Hi there,
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain correctly the put down and walk out.

Lay him down, say night night/whatever you say, then leave.  If he stands up right away, I would still leave the room or you will get yourself into continual put down and it might become a game.
Wait outside his door - if he doesn't cry - don't go in.
If he cries the minute you leave have a wait time (5sec.-this is what you decide but it has to be consistent) and go back in and do put down and leave again.  If he stops crying while you are counting outside his door, don't go back in.  If he starts crying again (wait 5 sec.) then go back in.  If he is content and it sounds like he is playing/talking etc. I would not go back in. My son will play for a little before he goes to sleep.  The wait time is up to you but stacey is right, you don't want it to become CIO so you have to decide on what is best for you/your son and what will work.  My son will cry hard when we initially leave the room but then settle very quickly so if we went in after 5 sec. it would not be enough of a wait time and it would all start again.  You decide on the wait time.

I hope that helps.  This weekend will probably be quite difficult and you might want to give in but don't - if you stick with it, it will pay off in the end.  I also agree with stacey about trying to not nurse in the night.  It will become a habit that he will rely on to get back to sleep.  If he wakes in the night and will not settle, I would just do the pd/wo/wi routine that you do for naps/bed.  I would do this routine for all naps/bed all the time so it is consistent.  If you give in and hold him/nurse him because he gets really upset you will confuse him - he will start to think how long do I have to be upset before I get what I want??  Just reassure yourself that you are doing the right thing and stick with it.  Good luck!

[artemis68]

I was hoping someone could help me today with some important questions...
 we started this morning with his morning (9am) nap, it was a bit grueling, he gave off consistent screeching cries for help so we were in and out almost every 10 seconds for 2 hours.  At 11am he finally fell asleep from exhaustion.

Can you please clarify a few things for us?  We did not pick up, only put down when we went in after 10 seconds of intense crying.  It got him hysterical to be be touched and layed down, I think it confused him that we were not picking him up.  So we stopped doing that for a while and he just kept staying standing in the crib and watching us going in and out.  Then we started putting him down again.  We tried to lay him on his side facing away from us, but he rolls over and sits up so quick that its hard to leave the room while he's not watching you go out.
What should we do about his seeing our leave?  And what should we do about putting down and touching, because it makes him crazy hysterical really quickly?

Also he doesn't stop crying once you go in the room, whether I lay him down, touch him or not, so should we walk out anyway, or sit by the crib and stay with him until he quiets down, which could take a while, and then walk out?

Also it's impossible to find a moment of quiet to say the key phrase, he's crying while we're saying it, is that OK, or does it form a negative association for him of that phrase?

We did this process for 40 min. took a 20 min quiet break and started again until he fell asleep at exactly 40 min. later.  Is that the right thing to do?
11am is the time he usually nurses and he fell asleep before I fed him, this throws off our schedule by 2 hours, what happens next?
Do I just keep shifting the nap and bedtime schedule accordingly?  And if so bedtime will be pretty late.
How do we manage to keep this all on track? or is it expected to just go bonkers the first few days?
 
We're into the second nap attempt now for 21/2 hours, no go, still screaming!!!  What should we do now, just skip it and try for bedtime at this point?

Anyway, I managed to get through this first part without tearing my hear out...wish us luck for the next episode.

alyssa