can't figure out timing for second nap = short nap!

[mandykittie]

I'm getting so frustrated!  We've finally convinced Jasper (8/17/05; 9mos old) to sleep all night most nights, but now the naps are all wonky!  Here's our current schedule:

6:15 awake (would like this to be 7, and it used to be!)  and nurse
7:30 breakfast (oatmeal and blueberries w/yogurt)
8:45 nap (after he's awake for 2.5 hours or so)
10:15 awake, nurse
12ish lunch (protein, fruit, and grain)
nap
awake, nurse
5:30 or 6 dinner (some sort of casserole with protein, veggie, grain, more fruit if he's still hungry)
6-7 bed (as late as I feel like I can stretch him without him becoming overtired). 

I'm so frustrated, because he just won't take a third nap in the afternoon, so we have to (a) have enough wake time during the day that he'll sleep well at night, but (b) not keep him up so long that he becomes overtired.  2.5 hours after nap #1 he's usually not tired enough, but by 3, 3.5 he'll take a short nap, be cranky all afternoon and have to go to bed early.  I just don't know where to go here!  If I put him to a regular schedule will he just adapt?   Realistically, it would be great if he would get up at 7, nap around 9:30 or 10 (until 11 or 11:30), nap again around 2 (until 3 or 3:30) and go to bed around 7 or 7:30.  I just don't know how to get there!

I also have trouble since on Mon and Thurs Josie goes to school and I'm not home until about 9:15, then have to pick her up at 1.  It's such frustration!  Is it this difficult for everyone?
Thanks so much!
Amanda

[Mom to M&M]

At Jasper's age (only one week younger than my DD), he really should only have two naps.

If he wakes at 6:15, I wouldn't give the first nap until 9:15.  At his age, 3 hours A time should be manageable in the morning - just keep the last bit of it low key. Then wake him by 11 if not up yet and shoot for second nap starting 3.25-3.5 hours from end of first nap - wake him if not up already by 4 and then bedtime between 7 and 7:30.

Remember to extend A times slowly - keep the last 20-30 minutes low key - go for a walk, cuddle, read books, etc.

[mandykittie]

This makes a lot of sense.  I've been trying to figure out how to squeeze in (ha ha) 10 hours of awake time with two naps...and this does it nicely.  I had an inkling that some of his naps were short b/c he just wasn't tired enough, rather than being overtired.  It's just such a struggle dividing time between him and his sometimes-jealous, always-cute 3 year old sister AND paying enough attention to his cues to see when he's actually sleepy.
I thought it'd be so much easier with the second one...yeah, right!
Thanks so much, and I'll let you know how it goes!
Amanda

[mandykittie]

We're still having a lot of trouble.  We tried the routine that Marisa Mom described for about ten days (keeping waketimes around 3 hours for the first, 3.25 or 3.5 for the second, then bed around 7-7:30).  The morning nap was fine, but his afternoon nap got shorter and shorter, and he stopped sleeping through the night.  He was also having an awful time going down for the afternoon nap, making me think he was becoming pretty  overtired.  His waketime moved up to about 6:40, though, which was nice. 
Now I'm just so confused. 
We tried moving the intervals between his naps back a little, thinking that the long intervals were leaving him overtired.  This is how our weekend went:
Saturday went okay, up at 6:30, naps at 9:30 and 1; he got to bed at about 6:45 after taking some good day naps...but woke at 5:30 instead of 6:30 (at least no nightwakings)! We got him to bed an hour earlier, he was awake an hour earlier---totally counter to what we've gotten with Josie...
Sunday woke at 5:30 but took GREAT naps, 90 minutes at 9, then 2 hrs 40 min at 1! I thought that we had to be getting back on track, and since he'd napped so well we'd have a great night's sleep, sleep begets sleep, right? Well, I got him to bed a few minutes after 7, he was happy and didn't seem overtired. I soothed him for about ten minutes and put him in bed wide awake...fell asleep by himself with no crying! I thought we'd really gotten somewhere. Alas, he woke up an hour later and whined for twenty minutes before he really started to scream. I soothed him for a few minutes and he went back down. Up again this morning at 5:30, obviously tired, but wouldn't go back down.
He's just woken from his morning nap after about 90 minutes, and is crying instead of the happy baby I'd like to hear....
What am I missing?

[TDR'smom]

Sorry you are having such a tough time.  My DS's napping became all crazy around 8-9 months but worked its way out.

Could he be teething or something else bothering him???

[Mom to M&M]

Definitely could be teething or something developmental affecting his naps as well. Has he started doing anything new lately?

[mandykittie]

Well, I don't see any evidence of teeth, his four on top and two on the bottom are quite in, and there's nothing to indicate that more are imminent.  He's been crawling, pulling up, cruising, etc for months now, but isn't quite to the point of 'nearly walking.'  He got some new consonants last week, but seems to be beyond that.  It hasn't even been excessively hot! 
I guess I'll try moving his last nap up a bit, maybe to 1:30 or so, and see how that does.  I can see that he's tired, dark circles, always rubbing his eyes and yawning.  I guess I'm wondering now...what's a reasonable interval before bedtime?  Maybe I could shoot for 2.75 hours before morning and afternoon naps, then a longer stretch in the evening...
I remember that Josie had a schedule where she was awake 2 hrs (nap) 3 hrs (nap) 4 hrs (bed)...but I can't seem to remember how old she was :/
Amanda