8 week old constantly skipping a nap and OVERTIRED

[digbnmom]

Lori0508 & Waffler,

He napped!  He actually napped today - 3 times!

I'm not sure if he's just getting over some discomfort, or if it's something I did .

This is what I did different; darkened the room (had to hang sheets/towels to get the job done),
used a store bought swaddle thingy (he kept slipping out of mine), bought one of those Womb Bears that mimic the noise inside the womb, and just really watched for that first yawn.  I think there is a lot to be said about getting them down b4 they get too tired.
 
We'll see how it goes tomorrow, I'm really hoping we're on to something here.

Good luck,

[socalm2b]

OK...I'm hardly an expert. God knows most of the time, I'm scanning the boards here for answers, clues, tips, whatever but here's my 2 cents.

My LO is doing this as well. She sleeps a big chunk in the middle of the day 1-5-ish or 12-4ish or something to the like and waking up for one feeding sometime in between those hours. There's no stopping her from sleeping during this time. She does not want to be awake during this time other than for feeding, her need to sleep during these hours is STRONG.

The rest of the time, I see her tired and starting to fuss about 40 minutes after she woke up, she's ready to doze off on me between 1 hr to 1 hr 20 m mark but if I put her down, she'd wake up in 5, 10, 15, 20 or 30 minutes (depending on her mood, I suppose).

I do not recall having this issue with DD1. But since so many of us are seeing this in our LOs, it makes me think that this is how it is for many babies and that this is NATURAL for some to be so wakeful at this age (mine is 7 wks tomorrow). According to somethings I've read, it just seems like a biological thing with our babies...so scheduling/giving our babes a pattern like EASY is not going to work at this time.

Don't get me wrong, they still need to go to sleep at about the hour mark. But for now, I'm just doing what I can to help her go there - swing, car, holding til she falls into deep sleep so she won't be overtired.

I do recall with DD1 that around 3 months or so, we easily fell into the EASY routine - although I dare not say too EASY since even after 3 months, things often did not always work. Hang in there ladies. Let's just ride this one out together. I'm sure as our babies mature, they'll grow out of this phase.  As they say, this too shall pass.   

[waffler]

digbnmom : I'm so happy for you that your baby napped! As for us, I think it still doesn't work. This is what typically happens.

She starts to show tired signs. Take her to room, darken it, talk softly.
Put her down to swaddle - at THIS stage she starts yelling.
Swaddle her - still yelling.
Pick her up - still yelling
shush/pat while she's being held - still yelling.
Still yelling.
Still yelling.
GIve up, put her down, try to shushpat while she's down. Still yelling.
Try this for a few mins - still yelling.
And this goes on for a while, and finally, somehow, we get her to nap but this is ONLY because we've given up and start swaying.
And she only ever sleeps for 25-30 mins.

So, my big question is : The 4S says nothing about a SCREAMING baby. Tracy did say "if your baby fights you while swaddled and held upright, put her down, never hold a fighting baby". THEN WHAT??? She will still yell when she's down.

THe only way normally we can get her to calm down is by swaying. I really do want to follow this 4S method of putting her to sleep, but it just seems that it doesnt work for her. Do I just have to persevere? The trouble is, by 4-5 pm, she is SO exhausted becuase she just hasn't slept, that she then fusses on the breast and won't feed, so I have to hold her rock her before she's calm, nodding off, and then put her on the breast. And then, she falls asleep on the breast, and I'll put her down, where she'll normally stay asleep for 3-4 hours (at night). For the last fortnight, every time I feed her before bed she's fussed and fussed.

What am I doing wrong? Btw, she's 15 weeks, 10 weeks corrected as she was preemie.

[Zoey]

Waffler have you tried starting 4s's 10-15 mins before you usually see sleepy cues?  Try that, perhaps it'll help some.  If she isn't napping for more then an hour, you will have to shorten her next A time to avoid her becoming overtired.  Always start the wind down 10-15 mins before her A time is up.  So like if like she eats at 7am and her A time is 1h and 45m (hypothetical) you would start her 4s's at 830am and aim for her sleeping by 845am.  You can try wake to sleep for short naps.  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0 - I am partial to the second method and try staying in the room for a few mins after you stir her, I find sometimes if I stir Owen and try to leave right away, I stir him even more by leaving.  So stir and hit the floor for a fwe then go out.

Good luck

Zoey

[waffler]

Wow Zoey that was a quick response! Thanks.

What normally happens is:
0700 = wake, feed, she is still sleepy (room still dark) so this is easy, we put her down and she sleeps for 1.5-2 hours
1000 = wake, feed. She's bright and bubbly. Round about 1045-1100 we give her a bath (NB< she started with morning baths, now I give two, because I think she likes it, so she gets one in the morning and one in evening before bedtime, see below. Is this too much? )
Round 1130 she starts to yawn, so I start the 4S (Zoey i'll try to do this much earlier. But from experience, if I start to swaddle her early, she really hates it and yells. What should I do to wind her down?). This only results in a 25 min sleep.
ANd the day basically goes on like this till 4pm,
4pm = Feed. SHe's exhausted now. So we try to get her to catnap, at this stage, desperation sinks in and she sleeps in our arms - as we want her "rested" before dinner.
5.30 pm = massage then bath. Right on cue, as we're putting her PJ's on, she starts to fuss. And on the breast for a feed at around 6pm, she keeps pulling off, definitely overtired. So, I swaddle her, hold her (I HAVE to sway), sing a lullaby, and she stops crying eventually and relaxes. Then, and only then, can I put her on the breast for a feed.

Her activities during the day are minimal. I hardly take her out as she hates her car seat and screams all the time. Normally it's just a cooing, smiling, laughing, walks round the garden - that sorta thing. Bit of tummy time. I don't dangle things that make too  much noise to overstimulate her.

As for the wake2sleep, I tried at 18 and 15 mins . And that didn't work    Husband is now taking a walk with her in the baby bjorn to try to get her to sleep.

See, I know eventually i have to stick to a plan, but it's so hard when I feel so sorry for her when she's so exhausted that I try to get at least one nap in for her where she's asleep for 90 mins, and that can only be done on someone.

Someone told me that when they can find their thumb and start self soothing that everything changes. I"m praying that day comes soon!

[Zoey]

I know exactly what you mean - but take it from my experience.  If you feel badly for her now - you will feel even worse when you have to try and wean something you started - know what I mean?  Just think of months from now when she is heavier and more alert and interactive - and trying to wean things you can't do anymore. 

My advice (to take or to leave ) Is to pick a wake up time of 7-730am and stick with it.  Babies need a chance to set their internal clock and they need your help to do that.  By sticking with a wake time and bedtime that will help her do that.  If she doesn't set her clock, things may be harder when she gets older.

I think baths are great.  I think two is fine!  I wish I could take two Lol

So, like at 815am I would maybe stop her activity and do something very low key and quiet - maybe walk slowly around the house and talk softly, telling her its almost time for sleep.  Then. I would start her 4s's wind down at 1125am  I would go in, draw the shades, put on some white noise or lullaby, change her diaper, maybe read a short story, or tell her one, and then sit with her for a few moments talking softly, telling her she is going to take a nap or whatever.  Then try swaddling her someplace other then where you are now.  Like if you do it on the change table, try on the floor.  Make up a song to go along with it, and sing while you put it on.  Do slow and quietly.  I would swaddle her then put her up to your shoulder ans start pat/shh, or SOME form of it that she finds soothing.  Hum pat, rub him, rub shh, bum pat shh, bum pat hum, bum jiggle shh - etc etc.  If its pat shh, fine.  Do this for 5 mins or so, then put her down in the crib and pat/shh again.  If she wakes at 25 mins then use pat/shh to get her back down.  Also remember if she doesn't sleep a good at least hour and half then she cant tolerate a full, next A time.  You will have to shorten it a bit.

Here is a rough routine:
E 7am
A From when done eating til 815am, then try to slowly walk around like I wrote above.  Then at 825am start the 4s's like a wrote above, and aim for sleep in the crib (no swaying) at 835am
S 835am til 10am

E 10am
A From done eating til 1115am, then walk, then 1125am wind down 4s's (Maybe do bath in this A time.)
S 1135am til 1pm

E 1pm
A Done eating til 215pm, then walk, then 225pm wind down 4s's
S 235pm til 4pm

E 4pm
A Done eating til 515pm, then walk, then 525pm wind down 4s's
S 535pm catnap for 45 mins til 620pm

E 7pm
A Bath, massage, PJ's, then right into 4s's
S 730pm

DF 10-11pm

Try not to sway.  If you put swaying into the wind down, she will get so she can't fall asleep without swaying, and then when she wakes in the night, or in between sleep cycles, she will not be able to put herself back to sleep - because she will need the sway to do it.  Know what I mean?  If she wakes do pat/shh and get her back down.

Have a read: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26671.0 - (we don't use pupd until 4 months)  and https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64759.0.

If wake to sleep doesn't work, I think it is because she needs you to sway her in order for her to get back to sleep when she wakes at all.  Make sense?

I hope this helps some
Zoey

[~Lori~]

waffler---good luck!!  I'm still in the same boat.  My little one was doing GREAT, but then we went away this weekend to visit my family (a 5 hour car trip where she had 2 naps of 35 minutes)...she is now BEYOND BEYOND overtired and I'm not sure how to break the cycle!!!  i feel so badly for her...

Hope the advice works for you!

Lori

[Zoey]

Lori - try more naps and shorter A times and an earlier bedtime until she is caught up.  There were a few days Owen had 4 or 5 45 min naps, shorter A times after those short naps and an earlier bedtime.  Remember if the naps are less then 45 mins they are barely restorative and you will need to shorten the next A time and get her down earlier.  You can use pat/shh to try and extend those naps as well.

Good Luck
Zoey

[~Lori~]

Zoey

Thanks!  So with more naps, am I feeding more than?  Just not sure how to put all that in.  I am "normally" on a 3 hour e/a/s schedule so just wondeirng if we'll be doing more naps, if I'll be feeding more often?

Lori

[Zoey]

Try extending with pat shh if you can - I would not feed more - but I may feed 30mins earlier or later if she is sleeping.  Its only temp. until she gets back on track - certainly don't do it for long.  But mainly keep in mind that if you can't extend it, then she can't handle the next A time to be the normal length.  You could try wake to sleep too, if she is waking at the same time every nap.  Who knows too, now that you are back home she might not have that much trouble!  Just get sleep in when you can without accidental parenting if you can help it and try to get back on track.  Good Luck!!

Zoe