Author Topic: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?  (Read 1787 times)

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Offline Mamalou

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Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« on: August 11, 2006, 22:50:28 pm »
Hello
 I posted before a problem with short naps on the sleep boards and someone suggested trying to switch to 4 hour EASY. 
My ds is 15 weeks old.  My question is..

 I don't even know where to begin. 
today was just awful and I was in tears a few times.  Yesterday was ok, and the day before was also, we are kind of using that schedule of switching that's in the book (welll, with some corrections) and it's been ok, but we've still got this nap problem, and today it happened and my ds was inconsolable.  It was so hard to see him so upset and I just don' t understand why he would be..soo upset.  I feel like I"m doing something wrong.  My husband is questioning EASY.  He works in the evenings so he's there during the day when little Kubko is crying and he wonders what is going wrong. 
Last night our ds woke at 2:30 and wouldn't settle so I thought hungry so fed him, then he woke again at 4:30 and also wouldn't settle so I fed him :( and I had planned to wake at 5:30 to do w2s because he keeps waking at 6:30, but I just crossed my fingers that today would be different because of that 4:30 feed.  I was wrong.  He woke at 6:30 and I managed to get him to hold out by slowly dancing to music. 
Then we woke at 7 and started the day.

But,we got way off the schedule that is recommended in the book (for changing to 4 hours)
Here's how it went:
E  7:00
A  started to get tired around 8:00, so I held him and listened to music til about 8:20 then did a wind down for nap of dancing to 1 slow song, then  rocking in a rocking chair while singing lullabies, then putting him in bed awake.
S   he fell asleep at 8:45.  Tried to do W2S (by stirring him a little 20 min. in), but he still woke at 9:10.  I tried to calm him, but the just wouldn't settle so I finally ended up feeding him in tears.  I felt like such a failure.  But I don't understand why he is so upset.  I feel like I'm totally screwing him up or something.
E 9:30 
A at this point I was just going to do a nappy change and then try to get him to sleep again, but as he showed big signs of frustration again, I decided to hold off on the sleep and calm him with some quiet play time. 
S This time I rocked him in the chair probably a bit too much, he was almost asleep and I put him in the bed, he cried a little, and then konked out, but just for 45 minutes.  Tried unsuccessfully to get him back to sleep, so I fed him
E 12:18
A had a nice play time
S getting him down was difficult again, he was screaming, and I started to go and get a sheet to swaddle him with and he started to quiet down on his own.  **i don't swaddle him because he fought it when I started EASY about a month ago, and then we had a really hot month of 30 degree plus weather and we have no air conditioning.  He was often sleeping in just a nappy. 
Managed to swaddle him, but left his hands out. So, he fell asleep aobut 2:10 and slept til 2:40.  I went in to do shh/pat and he was again screaming and very hard to calm.  Finally I ended up doing a sshh/pat right almost on top of him (I usually sit by his crib to do it, but this time I really bent down by his ear) It worked after 10 minutes, I watched him a while, and he startled himself awake and was screaming again, but I perserved and tried sssh/pat again and he slept 30 more minutes.  (3:30 -4:00)
E 4:00
A 4:30-5:45 last ten minutes were wind down for nap again
S ssh/patted for about 15 minutes, went to sleep at 5:45, woke again, went to sleep at 5:53 and then again woke 5 minutes later.  This was the catnap and he was completely angry again so I just decided to go ahead and feed him and go on with the day.
E 6:00
A bath he was lovely (always is til' I start dressing him-just recently becomes very fussy)
E top off
Then sat with me a while, then I rocked him a little, then put him  down.  He was fussy the whole time.  Finally went to sleep about 7:30

He woke at 9 (has done a couple of times this week:( but I turned him over and he settled (and turned over again :)
I dreamfed him at 11.  He's sleeping now...
my questions:
Is it normal for him to be so upset about sleeping?
It just breaks my heart when he is soo sooo angry.  He used to be more consolable for nap times, but it seems to be getting worse.  I feel like he hates his bed.  He cries sometimes before I even put him down (on the way).  I also feel like it's almost like crying it out methods when I'm just sitting there trying to ssh/pat or calm him and he's just crying, crying, and crying.  If I pick him up it gets worse.

Is rocking a little bit as part of the naptime or bedtime routine okay? or will it  become a prop?

It seems he's waking more at night now that I'm trying to change his routine, is that normal? Will it change after he gets used to the routine more?

Does someone know the link for the swaddle where hands are free?  Maybe I'll try it...

Does anyone ever have success with extending 45 minute naps?  Do you have to go in everytime to do W2S?  I'm feeling so pessimisti :(

I just want to enjoy my baby and today it was hard to do so. :(

I hope someone has some advice


Offline Mamalou

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 22:53:49 pm »
1 more question I forgot-it seems like he's been getting fussier and grumpeir (he was a textbook baby, I thought, but now I don't know!) What am I doing wrong?


Offline HeatherC

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2006, 19:25:57 pm »
Hi, Kristi!  I'm sure some of the Sleep Moderators will pop in with some great advice, but for now I wanted to offer you some {{{HUGS}}}.  I had a short napper and a fussy child, too.  I think as was in my dd's case that your ds is just very over tired.  I realize that it has been recommended for you to try the 4 hr EASY, and that's probably a great suggestion, but I would step back for a minute and maybe try 3.5 hrs until his naps are sorted out.  I think if you can get him some good quality sleep, then the feeding routine will start to fall into place.  With my dd, the suggestion was made to me to put her down for her nap 1 hour after waking for the morning.  This seems contrary to the EASY routine, but the aim was for her to get some good rest so that we could start fresh.  It seems that lo's sleep the best for the first nap after coming off a good night's sleep.   I think you're doing great in trying to extend his naps.  It's very hard work, and I commend you for sticking wtih it.

As for the rocking, some suggest not to do it, and while it may have been a major part of my dd's sleeping problems when she was younger (in fact I'm sure it was b/c I rocked her into deep sleep), once I cut the rocking down to only a few minutes and started placing her in her crib awake it has not been a problem.  She is 18 months old now and I still rock her for 5 minutes before putting her to bed as it gives her some time to wind down from playing, and some time for me to cuddle her.

For now, I would work on having 3.5-4 hourly feeds, continue with a routine of EAS, and continue working on trying to extend his naps.  Even though it's seems like he's CIO, he's not b/c you are there with him.  He is simply tired and finding it hard to go to sleep.
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline *Mona*

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2006, 19:43:32 pm »
hi Kristi :)

I'm sorry you're having some hard times with your LO and hope it will soon get better for you :)

I have no advice to give as my dd [15 weeks+] has been having some nap problems lately too and waking up a lot more at night (and I know that some other moms wit LOs in similar age are/were having those problems too) but just want to tell you that IMHO there's nothing wrong in rocking your baby to sleep if it's, like Heather here stated above, a part of a wind down and not rocking a baby into deep sleep.

our nap/night time routine is that I pick dd up, hold her upright and sing quietly to her, then I put her in a grobag and rock her for a few minutes until she's calm. then I put her down, give her paci [sometimes she refuses so I'm convinced it's not a prop] and a cloth diaper to cover her cheeks and just hold her hands for a moment. and usually she drifts off.
if NOT, then I just pick her up and rock her again, sometimes I have to repeat it a few times but she never falls asleep in my arms, always in her crib.

BTW, how are Jakub's feedings? I mean, is he eating a lot or just snacking with such short breaks between the feeds? we're more or less on 4 hrs EASY now and I must tell you that if I try to feed her earlier then after 4 hrs, she doesn't eat as much as she's "supposed" to.

anyway, hope things are getting better soon and big HUGS from Poland :)

Monika
~Monika~

Maja - 6 yrs
Nina - 27.11.2012 :)



Offline HeatherC

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2006, 19:56:29 pm »
Oh, yeah, Monika mentioned some things I forgot.  If he's eating every 2.5 hrs he might just be snacking, and therefore be hungry sooner.  Second, I almost wonder if you're winddown might be too long and too involved.  I could be completely wrong, and I hope someone will correct me if I am.  Have you read the part about the 4 S's:
Set the stage - prepare you LO room for sleep; remove stimulation, darken room
Swaddle - (I realize you said your ds doesn't like it, but often the one's that fight it are the ones who need it the most)
Sitting - Quietly without any stimulation, and when necessary..
Shush-pat
I think the general rule of thumb is for the winddown to be the last 10-15 minutes of A time.  If you want to keep the music and dancing, maybe you could do that during A time before the winddown.
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Mamalou

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2006, 20:06:48 pm »
Thanks everyone for your replies.  I was beginning to think no one would help me!  :) 

Actually, yesterday (before I had gotten any replies) was an excellent day :).  I tried the same routine (of switching to 4-hourEASY). 
Here's what happened:


he had a 4:30 wake up (which I think he may actually need)I fed him.
then he FINALLY slept til 6:58!!!!  I had planned to do a w2s to make sure he didn't wake up at 6:30 and my alarm rang but I didn't even hear it. (nice one, huh?) Maybe he heard it.Just kidding.  We live in a small 1 bedroom flat so Kubko's crib is right next to our bed. 
E 7:00
A 7:20-started wind down at 8:20 (we danced, swaddled him, rocked with lullabies) he got a bit fussy while I was rocking, but when I put him down he just mantra-ed a little bit and then he was out.
S 8:40-9:20, then I ssh-patted him 10-15 min, and he then slept til 11!!! I was going to wake him and feed him at 10:15, as the plan goes, but just let him go.
E 11:00 EBM (DH fed him)
A 11:30 with DH he started wind down about 12:20, I swaddled him, he started fussing, so quickly rocked with a short lullaby and as he was clearly falling asleep, I quickly took him to the bed (so he's still be awake) and he went to sleep right away,
S 12:30-tried w2s at 12:55 (tried to startle him a bit) but he still woke at 1:09, tried to let him settle,(mantra-ing) but was afraid he'd get past the consolable, so I came in and patted his belly and then held down his hands (swaddled without hands)and ssshed.  He went back to sleep about 130, Woke again at 2:20
E 2:20
A 2:40 started wind down about 3:15 (swaddled, rocked,lullaby put in bed)
S fell asleep at 3:45 slept til 4:15, I ssh patted, he went back to sleep but woke at 4:45. 
******when he slept til 11 that first nap, I decided to go over to the 12-15 day routine of switching to 4-hour EASY.  There is no catnap in that routine, technically he should've slept til 5. I thought it was too little of time to ssh-pat (just 15 min left of naptime)
E 4:47
A played a bit, then when he got fussy I took him to the bath so he wouldn't be too overtired.
  He was perfect for the bath until I started dressing him afterwards.  This never used to bother him, does anyone else have this experience??  He goes beserk when I put his pj's on and becomes kinda grumpy the rest of the time til bed.
E top-off 5:44 he hung out on my shoulder a bit (he likes to talk to the shiny oven that he can see from where we sit:) then he got fussy so I rocked and sang.  Kubko was laughing and singing with me :)he got to looking sleepy so I took him to his bed, was out straight away
S 6:00 (on that switching schedule it has a bedtime of 6:30 or 7 for those days 12-15)(I thought 6 a bit early but he was clearly tired and seemed ready)

That said, he then woke up a couple of times within the next 2 hours and I just patted him a few minutes and he was fine, then he woke again at 10, crying. I had planned to move my dreamfeed that night to 10:30, so I just fed him for the dream feed then.  He moved around a lot in his sleep that night too. 
Then he woke at 3:00, I fed him, then he woke at 4:30, I ssh-patted him back to sleep, tried the 5:30 w2s to get him to 7, but he woke at 6:40 :(


so the night after the excellent day was not soo good, but maybe it was the different earler bed time that threw him off, or just the change in routine.

Today has been crazy, but that's because we were out all day.  First at a friends' house for breakfast and a walk and lunch, then went to town for ice cream  (I'd been cooped up in the house 2 days, had to get out, but shouldn't have done so much in one day maybe, for Kubko I mean)Tried to get him to nap at the appropriate times but didn't always happen, and wasn't in a place always that I could sshpat or try to get back to sleep.  Ended up going off a bit, he had short naps of 30-45 min, then wasn't able to stay up long without being extremely fussy, it was a hard day.  I feel bad for him.  I think he may have been confused :(

But I'm looking forward to tomorrow.  Of course not sure if I should just try 3.5 EASY or continue on with the switch to 4hr.  I guess I'll see how it goes in the morning.  Is it okay to have a routine where in the morning he'd go 4 hr and then the 2nd morning feed would be 3 or 3.5 or does that confuse them?

As for the rocking and 4s's.  Yes, I try to do it, but it's hard to prepare his room when all I can do is shut the blinds (which doesn't make much of a difference, we have the sun shining on that side all day), but the rocking chair and cd player are in the living room, I figure the flat is so small that it's okay.  DH knows to be quiet  ), then as for the swaddle, tried it that day and it seemed good, just using a small bed sheet as I don't have a big enough blanket for him and also it's quite warm here.  Tonight he seemed a bit uncomfortable in it,(I know it's probably just my thinking, but still) so I tried what someone else suggested, tucking  a sheet in tightly in his crib.  That seemed to work tonight to send him off.  But bedtime  is always different than naptimes...

And about the rocking, I tried the 3rd S, (sitting) but he always struggles with this.  He gets really fussy and is all over the place.  It's hard for me to hold him that way, and then he gets all wound up it seems.  I usually end up moving right to the crib for a ssh-pat so he'll still be able to settle.
Maybe if I started early...

So, with the winddown, should it be the last 10-20 minutes of the activity time?  I was thinking that, that's what I aimed for, but I try to have him in his bed 20 minutes before the actual 'sleep' time to give him time to settle (or me to ssh-pat) and still get good sleep time in.  So, for example if sleep time was 9, I would start the windown at 8:30 to give him time before the sleep time.  (I know you're not supposed to follow the clock but for this routine of changing him to 4 hour, the book said to try and go by times in just that one instance).


And as for the feeding that day 2.5 hours apart, I know he can go longer, he usualllly has no problem going the full 3 hours.  I was really at the end of my rope, or so I thought.  But, I write everything down in a log, and as I was going over it that night, I realized that he seemed to be crying a lot longer than he really was.  You know, I think I gave in too easily.  I think that's why I was more determined the next day and I felt successful even if it did take 15 minutes of sshh-patting to get him to sleep.


Sorry this is so long!!!  Thanks again for your help



Offline *Mona*

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2006, 20:18:45 pm »
hi Kristi :)

nice to hear things are getting better for you. and Kubko of course  ;D

xxxx
Monika
~Monika~

Maja - 6 yrs
Nina - 27.11.2012 :)



Offline Mamalou

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2006, 20:36:25 pm »
Thank you!  Nice to hear from someone so close to us ! (We're in Slovakia :)


Offline Mamalou

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2006, 20:56:01 pm »
Majas Mom have just noticed that Maja was born on the same exact day as Kubko :)


Offline *Mona*

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Re: Help!Switching to 4hrEASY is this normal?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 09:28:01 am »
Lol  :o I haven't to be honest, but it's so cool!!!

I'll talk to you soon, when we're back from our holiday  ;D
I wonder how much in common do the both have?

xxxx
Monika
~Monika~

Maja - 6 yrs
Nina - 27.11.2012 :)