why are props so bad? for the 45 min nappers?

[nursekat]

Ok, I know in general why props are bad, but what about helping with this 45 minute nap monster?  My LO falls asleep almost completely independently in her crib (yay, miracle blanket!) with only a binkie for soothing.  She sleeps mostly through the entire night, occasionally waking for one feed or because she wiggled out of her swaddle.  For her naps, she goes straight down with minimal to no fussing or intervention on my part.  However, like most babies at this stage, she is awake exactly at 45 mins.  I have posts on a couple of other threads working on this, but really have gotten nowhere despite actively working on this for a few weeks.  On her most successful days, she tends to spend the second half of her naptime fussing every 10 mins or so, either lightly dozing or staying awake and entertaining herself.

If she doesn't get her full 1.5hr naps, she becomes more and more of a wreck as the day goes on, and is almost impossible to get to sleep at night.  Would it be so bad to use props for the second half of her nap?  Like giving her a bf nip or rocking her to sleep?  Has anybody done this successfully?  Otherwise I just feel like she and I are fighting each other trying to get her to sleep more, and we both end up frustrated and she ends up tired and cranky (ok, so maybe we BOTH end up tired and cranky). 

On a side note, stacy, thank you for your post on the FAQs about remembering that we are doing something wonderful (https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65443.0).  I have good days and bad days (today is a bad day, after trying to get her to sleep for 3 hours last night), and am really, really struggling with being frustrated.  And you're right, I need to get out of the house.  I have barely left the house in an effort to keep her sleeping habits as healthy as possible.  It's not helping me, though!!

[Mamalou]

hi nursekat
I can't really help you, just wanted to let you know like so many others, I have the same problem.  I was just wondering today has anyone's LO taken all naps properly atleast one day?  I considered today a good day because I actually got him back to sleep for two of the naps and so he ended up sleeping 1.5 hours both times, however, the third and final nap (we're on 3.5 EASY) he just couldn't get back to sleep.  I ssh-patted and everything else for almost an hour!  I even tried rocking him, and when he looked almost there I put him back in bed, only to begin screaming again
It breaks my heart when he can't settle down just because of sleeping.  It makes me question the need for the nap, but then if he doesn't have a proper nap, he is much fussier.  
Anyhow, sorry I have no advice, I just hope they will be able to get back to sleep soon!
good luck
Kristi

[nursekat]

thnx, stacy...that was I guess my big question - if I use props will it mess everything else up?  So I will try various things - it's usually her last long nap of the day that we have the most trouble with...she's so tired by then!  If the props mess her up we'll go back to square one!

I also wanted to ask you...on some other threads working on my LO's naps, I got a lot of suggestions to extend her A time.  You said shorten her A time.  Anyway, she gets really tired after only an hour and I put her down with no problems.  She still is awake anywhere from 20-30 mins between her 45min nap segments.  I worked over 2 weeks to extend her A time, and it became harder to put her down, and she was still awake that 20-30 mins between nap segments, so she became soooo tired she was a monster.  I just don't think extending her A is the answer, so I liked seeing you say shorten the A time, even though her A time is "less" than what is recommended (I use quotes because she ends up getting all that A time for each EAS segment anyway).

Mamalou - thanks for the support!  I'm thinking we need to start a simple support thread for all of us out there struggling.  I noticed there was a similar thread for a N/W support group...whaddya think?  Not for advice, but just for each of us to offer hugs.    My LO took proper naps two days in a row once - and it was only because we went on a trip that required us to be in the car for 4 hours...so she had her first nap at home with me helping her back to sleep (always easiest to do on her first nap), then the other two naps were in the car so she was great!  You should have seen how easy it was to put her down that night!  LOL!  The next day she spent a lot of time in the stroller, which also puts her to sleep.  It was heaven.  I keep telling my husband I'm just going to drive cross-state day after day so she can get her naps in. 

[nursekat]

I guess I'm worried because in two weeks she'll be 4 months and ready to transition to a 4-hr EASY.  There's no way she'd stay awake for 2 hours!  And re-reading Tracy's interview, I'm thinking it's important to keep trying to extend the A time.  I just haven't been that successful with it, since she gets so tired easily, so I'm nervous.  I guess I'll keep trying.  She's just a sleepy baby (always has been...have always had to wake her for feeds in the early weeks) - she takes after her Mom!  LOL! 

[Mamalou]

hi Nursekat

I think the support thread is a good idea   Today I thought I was going to eat my very words from yesterday, because Kubko had 2 good naps (I had to help him extend, but for me it's a success if he's able to go back to sleep), and seemed to be in a very good mood before the third and final one.  But when I went to put him down, he just couldn't go to sleep!  It took us an hour of sshpatting, etc. (even tried rocking again but he finally did go to sleep!  Just for 30 minutes, but still. 
And about your LO going to be 4 mo old soon, same here, was just thinking about that today.  We've recently switched to 3.5 EASY, we were working on the transition to 4-hour EASY, and in my head I am trying to extend his A time (still doing 1.5 hours, I've just learned to read cues better and not put him down too early, thus not having to shh-pat as long), but when he gives such clear signals that he is tired, even after 1 hour awake, and I switch to something more low-key, I just can't imagine extending to 2 hours!  I guess we'll try gradually, but it's hard! 
I think we'll just have to get to the 4-hr EASY when we get to it. 

Take care
Kristi

[cathbilson]

For those of you considering transferring to 4-hour EASY soon...
My son did it himself. He flatly refused to feed after 3 1/2 hours one day. After a terrible two days of battling to get him to feed and sleep when I thought he should (he was only 3 months and 3 days old at the time!) I gave in and went to 4-hour EASY. He still struggles to stay awake for 2 hours - it's usually more like 1 hour 45 mins - but magically, as soon as we went to 4-hour, the 45 minute naps stopped. Well, not stopped, exactly, he still does one every couple of days, but mostly he goes down to bed and sleeps until either I go to get him, or he wakes up about 5 minutes before his feed is due.
Watch YOUR baby. If you find he/she is not particularly eager to feed after 3 1/2 hours, start the transition. Your baby will do it when he/she is ready.
And incidentally, about props when doing 45 minutes nap - my trick was never, ever to pick Kieran up. I just went in, keepign the room dark, wrapped him back up if he'd escaped the swaddle, and popped his dummy in. 9 times out of 10 he'd fall back to sleep within 10 minutes and then sleep until I went to get him.
I guess the question is, do you want your baby to have good naps now? If so, weaning them off a dummy a bit later is probably not that big a deal. Incidentally Kieran doesn't use the dummy a lot - it's strictly for bed, and often when initially ging down for a nap he doesn't need it.

[Lizziebeth]

This is really interesting thread re:45 mins and props.  And I think a support group would be great.

Stacy, you know if babies still continue to take 45 mins naps at 6 months, do they still get as crotchety and fussy in the evenings?  Just wondering if overtiredness affects 6 month olds as much as it does 3 month olds? 

We are really battling short naps at the moment and my LO (9 weeks) is just plain unbearable in the evenings, crying and wailing for a long time from overtiredness.

I like your suggestion to vary the props a little.  I do think mums HAVE to have a break from sitting over the cot shush/patting the entire day to get 8 x 45 min naps.  It would test anyone's sanity!!  Especially when the shush/pat is not always successful and they jolt awake at 20 mins anyway.

Nursekat, I'm much the same as you.  My LO goes down for the first two naps so easily in her own cot with hardly any intervention from me.  But on the second nap, I'm trying to experiment with W2S and this works - sometimes but not always.  If not, she wakes at 45 mins and then we're off track. 

One thing that I've found useful to get back on track (and have a break) is to put my LO on my chest in the living room and watch tv and pat her to sleep, then pat her through the 40 min jolts and get her into a second sleep cycle.  This means she has a good 1.5 hour restorative nap. 

Then we wake to feed and for the fourth nap, back to the cot for the usual wind-down and she goes off more easily without much intervention from me. 

But I'm going to try and vary the sleeping on the chest thing so it doesn't become the only way.  Like you said, maybe a walk in the pram or a car-ride.  Anything to just do something different than stay at home all day getting frustrated and wound-up. 

[Lizziebeth]

Stacy, I'm soooo glad to hear you say it gets better at that age!   I could live with her not napping well and being up the whole time but it's the terrible overtired crying in the evening that just kills me

[nursekat]

Yup, the only reason I struggle with my dd all day with her naps is so we can have a peaceful evening and an early bedtime.  I'm doing a little better this weekend with my DH around to help, but I'm starting to worry I'm getting ppd.  Off to those boards! 

Stacy, I'd love to help monitor a support group.  From what I'm reading, there are a lot of us out there struggling with this, and it'd be nice to connect with all of them.  And I agree - we can get more specific advice and help on seperate threads.

Anyway, my best-working prop has been rocking her to sleep.  I have a super comfy recliner that we often both nap in for her end-of the day nap.  Some days she doesn't need it, though, especially if we were successful for her first two naps.

Anyway, the next thing is to work on my sanity.  I think I'm going to get a comfy barstool to sit next to her crib (my back screams from standing there so much during the day) and a books on tape for my ipod.  Then I'll just chill out there during the time it takes to get her back to sleep - I think some of the frustration of sitting there is the mental boredom! 

Stacy did you talk to the other mods yet about a support thread?  Thanks for all of your help!!

[KellyC]

I agree with using different props so your LO doesn't get used to needing the same thing each time she sleeps.  Sometimes when Zander woke after 45 minutes I'd put him straight into the pram or baby carrier and go for a walk to see if he'd nod off again.  Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn't but it got me out of the house and away from my spot beside his bed!  Have you tried one of those crib toys which project pictures onto the ceiling?  I've just got one for Zander and if he's kicking off at bedtime it distracts him enough to calm him down and then he's able to go to sleep.  It could be too stimulating but just an idea.

Kelly x

[Lizziebeth]

Lots of hugs Nursekat.  I feel your pain - it's like you just want to give up on the stress of dealing with short naps.  But then you can't because you know you'll have a screaming baby on your hands for the rest of the day.  So trapped by the situation. 

I'm going to use up my prop freebie once a day if necessary to get back on track and steal a 1.5 hour nap.  It worked a treat this afternoon - afterwards she woke up happy and went back down for all her naps by herself in the cot, not even needing any patting from me.

W2S worked as well at 35 mins ... or maybe she just had the right A time.  I feel much saner tonight! 

Zandersmummy, that's a good idea to try and get out for the second 45 min nap in the pram too.  I feel like I don't get out much these days. 

Let's keep in touch!