Author Topic: Troubled Napper  (Read 1660 times)

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Offline Peek-a-boo

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Troubled Napper
« on: August 31, 2006, 06:03:32 am »
I'm on day 10 of pu/pd sleep training.  Although it took him a bit to get settled, night sleep straightened itself out almost immediately.  DS went from being swaddled/rocked/bf to sleep and then waking 3-6 times per night to bf back to sleep for 20-90 minutes each time, to sleeping 11.5 hours straight with no wake ups (the first three nights, he woke up once to eat, but has been consistant for the past six nights).

Naps, however, have not gone so well.  I think that Zoey over on the pu/pd boards thinks that I am doing the pu/pd technique correctly and something else is preventing him from napping well . . . perhaps his schedule.  She suggested I post either here or in the EASY forum, so I thought that I'd start here.  I'm new to BW so I'm still having a bit of trouble figuring out what his routine should look like.

Background:  He's never been a strong napper.  Until he was four months old he napped on my lap or in a sling.  Then I started swaddling him for naps and he slept in his cribs, but naps were rarely long.  (I had been swaddling him for night sleep all along, but some how thought that swaddling him for day sleep too was bad . . . I don't know what I was thinking.)  My efforts to keep on a schedule were always fruitless because his sleep times were so variable, so instead I just tried to put him down when I saw sleepy signs, usually 90 min. to 2 hours after last sleep period.  At 5 months he became able to be awake for 2 hours b/t naps most of the time.  He was sleeping pretty well at night at this point (just one wake up).

When he was six 1/2 months old I read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child.  By this time naps were still spotty and night sleep was getting worse.  It suggested that babies who had been colicky or extremely fussy early in life often did better with a very short awake time before their first nap up until they were nine months (not sure on the rational)--as short as just an hour.  DS had been very fussy as an infant.  This book also said that eye rubbing was a sign he was OVERLY tired, while yawning was a sign of the sleep window.  We realized that he was eye rubbing by the time he went down for his first nap, so we started putting him down for his first nap when he yawned, about 1.5 hours after waking.  For a few weeks this worked very well.  He was taking long first naps.  Then suddenly all of his naps became quite short and I was very frustrated--night sleep was getting worse all the while.

Enter BW.  The pu/pd moderators suggested that he needed more "A" time than I was giving him and that was probably contributing to his short napping.  They suggested a routine that stretched his first "A" time to 2.25 hours and set his second at 3 hours.  Over the last ten days he's only had three naps that exceeded an hour and only two days on which he slept during both nap periods.  Most days his total napping time has been less than half an hour. 

When his night sleep straightened out and his napping still didn't, we adjusted his schedule to increase his "A" time to 2.5 hours thinking that now that he was sleeping well at night he could handle more "A" time.  We've been doing this for several days now and still no improvement in his napping.  Now he's teething so we are taking a break from pu/pd training, but I need to figure out what steps to take next.

Here is our current routine:
6:30 wake and bf
8:00 solids
9:00-10:30 nap
10:30 bf
12:30 solids and bf
1:30- 3:00 or 3:30 nap
6:00 bf
6:30

Here are some things that I've noticed.  The first six days that we were doing pu/pd his first nap was scheduled to start at 8:45.  From 8:00-8:30 I would take him for a walk in his stroller and the second half of the walk I had to work hard to keep him awake.  The exception to this was on day seven when he came back so wide awake that we decided to experiment with adjusting his schedule for longer awake time, which resulted in 25 minute nap after four hours of awake time.

 Since using the adjusted schedule above, after we finish solids (which he's still not very excited about) he wants to breast feed.  It doesn't make sense to me that he would be hungry since he's having a very long feed upon waking and being offered solids.  I was wondering if maybe because I bf him to sleep in the past, his wanting to bf then is actually a sleepy sign?  If it is, it is falling at about 8:15, the time he was falling asleep on our walks.  Maybe he needs really short "A" time before his first nap . . . but that's what we were doing before we started pu/pd and it wasn't working out well.

On the other hand, maybe he's not even a little bit tired when we start our first nap and so it's just frustrating him to be put in the crib.  The only problem with that theory is that when he doesn't nap at all during the first nap at his 10:30 bf he's trying to fall asleep at the breast. 

I'm very frustrated and getting a little desperate.  I don't know if this post is most appropriate here on the EASY boards, but if anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate them.  He seems to be teething right now, so we are taking a little break from the pu/pd nap training, but I need to figure out what to try when it is time to start again.


Thanks and sorry this is so long!

Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 15:06:36 pm »
Few questions: how old is he? Do you darken his room? Use white noise? What is his wind down routine?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 15:14:13 pm »
He's nearly 8 months.  I do darken his room--I was just closing shades, now I have dark towels hanging up.  It's still not pitch dark, but it's very dark.  I do use white noise--I have a CD and he has a wall AC unit with a fan that runs.

Wind down is . . .

Diaper change, sit on the floor and read several books, listen to "prayer bear" (a stuffed animal who says a prayer), pray for him to fall asleep (seriously lol), sing a lullaby . . . and into the crib.  Sometimes . . . especially in the afternoon when he's missed his morning nap . . . he's literally falling asleep in my arms when I sing to him . . . but he wakes up as soon as I stand to put him in the crib.

Was 15 minutes, I cut it to 10 min. upon suggestion from pu/pd board.


Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 15:38:17 pm »
I do have some thoughts but have to run - my own DD wants lunch! I'll post more to you during her second nap in a few hours.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline thitz

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 15:57:26 pm »
Just wanted to share that my dd did well with early first naps for a long time.  I wonder if you should try it again since I think you did that before his nights were straightened out.

Also, make sure he doesn't fall asleep in your arms during the winddown routine.  You need him to fall asleep on his own.  Don't worry if the winddown isn't very long.  My dd has a really short winddown and is wide awake when I put her in bed.  It's like she says 'okay, I know I'm going to bed, so hurry up and put me down so I can sleep' ;).

I think you're doing great though, you've seen such a huge improvement at night!!!

Tarri


Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 18:57:37 pm »
Sorry about that - back now!

Couple of main thoughts:

1. At nearly 8 months, even 2.5 hours A time is likely not enough. He may yawn or seem sleepy, but often tired signs are confusing at this age and can be from habit, boredom or anything. I'd try 2.75 hours for first A time (possibly moving to 3 hours soon) and if he takes a nap of 1-1.5 hours, try for 3 hours A time before second nap.

2. It sounds like he's getting too far into sleep mode during your wind down routine. You want to put him in his crib drowsy but wide awake. If he's already falling asleep, the jolt from your arms to the crib will be more noticeable and upsetting to him.

3. Does he have a crib toy and/or a lovey? Both are invaluable to my DD's naps. Before every nap she has her blanket and her dolly in her crib and she often spends a good 5-10 minutes "talking" to dolly. She also has a crib soother (a Flutterby one, similar to Ocean Wonders aquarium) that she watches and listens to and helps relax her as well.

Hope that helps - remember also, it will take some time to get naps sorted out but consistency and patience are key! Good luck - sounds like you've already done a GREAT job with his nights.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 19:26:24 pm »
Thitz--when your dd did really short A time before first naps, how did the rest of her schedule play out?  Did you keep the third "catnap" for a while?  Or could she handle much longer A time later in the day?


Offline thitz

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2006, 18:27:08 pm »
Hello,

I just looked thru my baby log and Emily was waking around 6:30am and napping by 8:30/9:00am and then her second nap was at 2:00pm with bedtime at 6:00-6:30pm.

Hope that helps, Tarri


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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2006, 22:41:19 pm »
That helps  . . . thanks.  He's teething right now--two top teeth have come through and it looks like there are two more on their way.  I feel a little trapped because I don't feel like this is a good time to teach him to nap independently with his teeth bugging him, but I also didn't want to confuse him by going back to the nursing / rocking / swaddling/ going down asleep we were doing before. 

My temporary solution has been to drive him in the car for his naps and then park once he falls asleep.  I'm nervous about this but because I don't want to be creating a new prop addiction (not to mention that it's pretty spendy right now), so I want to get back to nap training as soon as possible.  I know it's crazy and totally age innapropriate, but the time that he seems to be genuinely tired and ready to fall asleep is at 1.75 hours after waking, so that's when I've been driving him and he falls asleep promptly, stays asleep when we stop, until I wake him after 1.5 hours.  However, he seems to handle three hours of "A" time before his next nap. 

I don't know if this is truly the best time to be putting him down, or if it is only working because of the driving.  I'm so scared that I'm going to mess up what we've already accomplished by driving him . . . but that's never a prop that we've relied on so I'm hoping it's less confusing than if we were to return to those props we just gave up. 

Anyhow . . . I"ll post back once we get into training again and see how it is going.

Offline thitz

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Re: Troubled Napper
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 15:57:45 pm »
Hello,  teething is horrible :(

Have you tried infant Advil to releive the pain?  And then you can continue with your nap training.

Hang in there, Tarri