8 MO now night waking and hysterical consistently after 3-4 hours sleep

[scotpiper]

How old is your child?
8 MO on 10/11

What’s her daily routine?
E: 7:00-7:45am - wake up & breast feed, solids & juice
A: 7:45am – stays in highchair & plays with toys while I get my breakfast as she has reflux and much activity after eating makes everything come up.
E: 8:15am - take reflux medication with food
S: 8:30am - nap (1-2 hours. She always wants her first nap within 1.5 hours after getting up for the day)
A:10:30am – activity followed by more juice. The activity length depends on how long the nap actually was. She gets juice about 15-30 minutes before her next meal as juice with the meal is too much with the reflux. The juice is necessary to counteract the constipating effects of the reflux meds.

E: 11:00am - breast feed, solids
A: 11:30am
S: 12:30pm - nap (1-1.5 hours. She never stays awake more than 2 hours between naps (so the actual nap times will vary) and is VERY fussy and shortens the nap if I try to force her to stay awake or we’re out of the house and get home late.)
A: 2:00 - activity followed by more juice.

E: 3:00pm - breast feed, solids
A: 3:30pm
S: 4:30pm - cat nap (30 minutes)
A: 5:00 – VERY mellow activity followed by last juice of the day.

E: 6:00pm - breast feed, solids
A: 6:30pm - bedtime routine (She doesn’t tolerate much wind down routine. Get room ready for sleep(turn on night light and white noise), diaper change, sponge bath, put on pj’s, sit in rocker (no rocking and with nothing but her night light on) with her lying on boppy on my lap, wait until she starts to relax (but not asleep) and put her in her crib.)
S: 7:00pm

What’s nap routine?
Get room ready for sleep(turn on night light and white noise), diaper change, sit in rocker (no rocking and with nothing but her night light on) with her lying on boppy on my lap, wait until she starts to relax (but not asleep) and put her in her crib.) She sleeps on her side due to reflux.

How long are naps?
1-2 hours and 30 minute catnap

What's bedtime routine? Time?
A: 6:30pm - bedtime routine (She doesn’t tolerate much wind down routine. Get room ready for sleep(turn on night light and white noise), diaper change, sponge bath, put on pj’s, sit in rocker (no rocking and with nothing but her night light on) with her lying on boppy on my lap, wait until she starts to relax (but not asleep) and put her in her crib.)
S: 7:00pm

Do you bottle or breastfed??
Breast feed, but she will take a bottle too.

How much? or how long?
About 5 oz per feeding (in addition to solids)and for about 20 minutes total...very distracted during feedings.
 
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
Both

How many wakes per night?
She is now waking up twice each night: within the first hour of sleep and again about 3-4 hours later. Basically, consistently at 11-12 and refusing to go back to sleep for 1-3 hours.

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?
She wakes quickly and gets hysterical almost immediately. The first waking, she is only up for a few minutes and the 11-12 waking, she is hysterical the entire time of 1-3 hours. She is restless and looking around the room, like she's afraid or looking for something during that entire time. Myhusband and I assume she is looking for one of us, but the other person going to her doesn't calm her down.
 
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?
Crying. We wait until we see if she can get herself back to sleep and only go in when it's clear she can't. It's an escalating cry....definitely NOT mantra.

What have you tried to settle??
PU/PD only stimulates her more. She sleeps with a paci and is capable of putting it back in if it falls out. We roll her back on her side and leave our hand on her shoulder while she settles. When she's hysterical, we wind up having to pick her up and sit with her on the boppy again.

What do you do for A time and how long is it?
Exersaucer, tummy time, read books. Length depends on how short the previous nap was and the fact that she must have juice before the next meal and can't have much activity after eating or drinking. Actual activity is about 30 minutes, but awake time is 2 hours including meals.

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?
She has 1 tooth, but no signs of any others. She has been sitting and getting on all 4's for about a month.

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)

Do they have a prop? If so what is it?
Sleeps with a paci, but can put it back in on her own and has a spare in the crib.

Do they have a lovie?
She won't use one.


So, after all of that, my  problem. We have spent the past 3 months trying to get DD on a 4 hour EASY (she was VERY resistant) and she was finally napping well and sleeping 11-12 hours straight at night. She was finally going to sleep without fighting and putting herself back to sleep when waking during the night too. That lasted for about 2 weeks. Now, she is waking twice a night and is hysterical when she wakes consistently at about 11 or 12 and stays awake for 1-3 hours. She had still been napping well until today. Today, she has fought me at every nap, shortened them all and has been alternately whining and shrieking. Absolutely nothing has changed in our routine. The wakings started without warning. She had started sitting before the good sleep stretch, so I doubt that's it. Any idea what happened and how to get back on track? Moderator help would be appreciated. I'm really dreading tonight.

[BenMum]

Hi

Big hugs to you!!!

This sounds just like what my ds is doing at the moment.  My son also has reflux and the doc has sugggested we try different meds for him to see if thats whats bothering him.  We saw a huge improvement almost straight away but now he seems to be constipated so was awake again a lot last night.  My doc said that sometimes when baby gets older what once worked for reflux doesn't any longer and they either need a change or increased dose.  Maybe this could help you too.  What meds have you got?  How much juice do you give for the constipation?  My son has laxatives but these seem to create even more wind......

If you come across anything that works let me know 

[Peek-a-boo]

I think that you may be expecting far too much sleep from your LO.  By 8 months I think that many LOs are staying up 2.5-3 hours between naps.  If your LO is waking up in the middle of the night and refusing to go back to sleep for such a long stretch, it is probably her way of telling you that she needs less sleep.  I also think that by 8 months most babies have dropped the cat nap and are down to just two day time naps. 

I discovered that I was having this problem recently with my 9 month old . . . I thought he should sleep 14+ hours a day, but no matter what I did, he would only sleep 12.5-13 hours a day.  If he napped well he would have long wake ups as you describe; if he slept well at night he would have short yucky naps.

You really need to try stretching your A times.  Now, at first I couldn't believe that my LO could handle longer A times because I was sure I was seeing sleepy signs.  Then I did a bunch of reading about biological rhythyms and basically you may be seeing sleepy signs simply because your child is used to going to sleep at a certain time so her body is preparing for sleep.   

The best way to stretch A time is slowly.  Try adding 5-10 minutes to each awake period every 2-3 days.   If she's spending 1-3 hours awake at night, I'd guess that's her way of telling you that she needs 1-3 hours more A time during the day.

The way that I figured out my son's sleep need was simple.  I went back over his sleep charts for the previous two weeks and ran averages.  I was surprised to find that whether it was day or night sleep he was almost never exceeding 12.5-13 hours of sleep.  So . . . I revamped his schedule to allot for more wake time and very slowly shifted him to it.  If you keep sleep logs try it--you may be surprised to find that she is pretty consistant about the total amount of sleep that she needs.

In the process of doing this you will probably drop the cat nap.

Good luck!

Bethany

[M and N's Mom]

My reaction when I read your post was the same as Bethany Ann...too short Awake times for 8 months.  My DS is 7.5 months and can handle 3 hours at a time, with only 2 naps. 

You said she wants her morning nap after only 1.5 hours of Awake time.  Although the first A time is often the shortest, too much morning sleep can actually disturb night sleep.  (I'm not sure why...someone with more experience can tell you, but I know that is what Stacy told me with my DS and it was true).  He now naps 1 hour in the morning, and 1.5 in the afternoon (he needs less sleep than some, but that will give you an idea).

Good luck!

[Petra-Kate]

She might need her medicine changed or adjusted.  My DS needed his reflux medicine upped as he gained weight.  Once he started sleeping through (and here is hoping he will again once this tooth comes in), the doctor had us stop one of the doses and that has not bothered him. Crying hysterically can be a sign of reflux pain which can get worse when prone. Does she arch her back?  (My son always does and my physician says that is a common sign.) One thing that might help a bit is raising one end of the crib mattress so that her head is a little higher than her feet.

As to constipation, my physician had us put Karo dark corn syrup in his bottles...it worked.  Now that he is on solids, prunes and corn work great...sometimes too great! 

If you aren't sure, you can always have your husband record one of her episodes and show the video to your pediatrician.  That is what we did with my DS when he was a week old. Everyone kept saying we just were not used to crying babies (Do you ever really get used to it?).  So we recorded and showed the pediatrician.  His response was "Wow!" and then he said "Uh thats reflux." (We refrained from saying "DUH!")