Should I wake the LO?

[SSM]

Hallo,

I am new to this forum and I have a query. I have a 5 week old boy. I have recently started the EASY routine with him. I would like to know if he is sleeping during his day time nap, should I let him sleep or wake him up at the 3 hour timeline. He has a very unsettled sleep during the day naps, and when he finally seems to settle and sleep, its time for his feed and I feel guilty about waking him again, after trying so hard to get him to sleep.

Also he is very unsettled in the evenings. I am trying the cluster feeding at 6, 8, 10.30. But he just refuses to take a nap between them. He appears tired and drowsy but the moment I put him in his cot he is wide awake. Last night he was up from 5.30 pm till 11 pm when he had his last feed and finally slept.

I would be gtraeful for any help, as he screams the house down in the evenings (ps: he does not seem to be in any pain, just wants to be held allllllll the time in the evening)

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hello, welcome to the boards

My advice would be to let him sleep until it is time for a feed, then wake him up. Don't let him sleep through a feed time, or he won't take enough calories in the day, and he'll wake for food at night (or in the evening in your case). I know it's hard waking them when you've worked so hard to get them to sleep, but if you are consistent with the 3 hours, then his little body will get into the rythm, and it will get easier to get him to sleep.

Have you seen our FAQ section (at the top of the Nap forum)? It's full of great information about teaching sleep, etc.

HTH, let us know how you get on

[SSM]

The rountine I have started is like this

E-7
A-
S-8.15/8.30 to 10

E-10
A-
S-11.30-1

E-1
A
S-2.30-4

E-4
A-
S-5.15-6

E-6
A-
S- This does not happen

E-8
A-none, if awake then we end up cuddleing and talking to him
S-Again uusally no luck or at about 9/9.30

DF-10.30 or 11 depending on when he slept

He wakes up once at night between 3-4am and the again by 6-7am

[KathrynK]

hi there
Do you have a bedtime routine in place yet? We introduced a routine at about 5 weeks and it really helped get rid of those evenings where dd couldn't settle. Let me know if you need some ideas of what/ how to do.

[KathrynK]

Hallo Kathryn,

Thanks for your reply to my post. I do not really have a routine for the evening as I massage and bath my DS in the morning, but have been thinking whether to change it to evening. Its just that I find it easier in the morning as by then I feel quite tired myself and do not have that much enthusiasm.On days he has good daytime naps he is still awake in the evening till 9.30/10/11 but in a happy mood. If he has not slept well during the day, he is still awake but very very fussy and keeps crying.The days he does not sleep well during the day, I have problems with feeding as well, as he feeds for 10mins and falls asleep on the breast. His routine currently is as follows, he is 6 weeks old:

The rountine I have started is like this

E-7
A-
S-8.15/8.30 to 10

E-10
A-
S-11.30-1

E-1
A
S-2.30-4

E-4
A-
S-5.15-6

E-6
A-
S- This does not happen( Happened today for the first time)

E-8
A-none, if awake then we end up cuddleing and talking to him
S-Again uusally no luck or at about 9/9.30

DF-10.30 or 11 depending on when he slept

He wakes up once at night between 3-4am and the again by 6-7am

I would really be grateful for some advice.

Regards,
Simmi

[KathrynK]

Hi Simmi
Ideally you want to have him in bed at around 7.15ish if he wakes from his last nap at 6.
I would treat that whole awake time as winddown with bath & massage ready for bed. I notice you are cluster feeding at 4,6 and 8, that's fine, I would try the 8o'clock feed at 7/7.15 instead.
As I said we introduced a bedtime routine at around 5 weeks, on the advice of a friend, and it turned out to be the single best piece of advice I was ever given! Our routine then looked something like this:
6pm wake & feed
6.15pm lay ds in cot while you prepare bath and massage stuff etc. I used to give dd one of two things to look at hanging on the side of the cot. (As she got older I started to give her a toy, or perhaps hang an activity centre. Now she has a stuffed lion the same size as her that she wrestles with!). Don't know if ds is sleeping in cot, or moses basket, at the moment. We found this was a great way of getting dd used to her cot each day so when she outgrew her moses and she went in there to sleep there were no transitional problems. 6.35ish bath
6.45is massage if that's what you normally do & get pyjamas on
7ish last feed & into bed.

Bear in mind with any new routine you need to be consistent as it takes will take a while for ds to get used to it. He will realise quickly that bath = bed and it should make your evenings much easier. Once dd got the hang of it she settled like a dream every night. If you find on some evenings he still won't settle, try to stay in his room if poss with the lights way low (if you haven't got a dimmer switch, now is the time to install one!) but if he gets agitated then move to another room but again keep it dim and keep talking and activity to a minimum. He will already be overtired so any extra stimulation will only make him feel worse.
I know sometimes it's hard at the end of the day when you are tired to go through all this but trust me, it's worth it as soon as you get your evenings back to yourselves. Some days it gets to 6pm and I think oh god not bathtime AGAIN I just can't face it, but you know it only takes an hour and then you can relax, and I love that quiet last 15 minutes when dd smells all yummy and has her jammies on and is on my lap having her bottle.
I know you came to the board originally seeking help with naps but perhaps if this helps the evening/ night sleep then his daytime sleep will get more settled too. Give it a go and let us know how you get on. Hang on in there!
kathryn xx

[SSM]

Hi Kathryn
thanks for the reply. I will start from today. If he feeds at 4 and 6pm, will he want to take another feed at 7?and then should I give him another feed at 9pm or go directly for the dream feed at 10/10.30? I used to change his nappy at 10, but was thinking that as he is fully awake becos of that to do it earlier. So I guess if I do it at bathtime, he will have the same nappy till morning, will that not wake him up as well?

[SSM]

The other problem is that I am breastfeeding, so on a good day he will be at the breast for the 6pm or 8pm feed for 25-30 mins, so I know he is feeding ok. Other days he is done in 10min and keeps dozing off on the breast but if I lay him in his cot he is awake again, I feed him again and this goes on for an hour. I am tempted to switch to the bottle for this reason

[KathrynK]

hi Simmi
Firstly, try feeding at 7 and see how much he will take. With my dd, she has always had her bedtime bottle no matter how much she has eaten in the afternoon because she knows it is bedtime. It may take a few days for him to get used to doing it this new way.
I would then do the next feed as your dream feed at your usual time. It looks like you are doing 3 hourly feeds during the day so to go from 7 till 10/10.30 looks fine to me.
I always did change dd's nappy at the df, but that's because she wouldn't feed unless I actually woke her up so that was how I woke her (hated doing that to her!). If he will feed sleepy then it's a bit of trial and error I think to see if the nappy will keep him dry until next feed. What nappies are you using? We use Pampers Baby Dry at night time and they have always kept her dry until morning, but admittedly I only started using them once I had stopped bf as I found Pampers New Baby were best for absorbing bf poo. (sorry if TMI). Do you change him when he wakes in the night for a feed?
I wouldn't try to switch to the bottle for his last feed at the moment, I would wait until you have the new routine established and he is comfortable with it. Too many changes at once might upset him. When you feel it's the right time then the wonderful ladies on the bottle & breast feeding boards can help you starting the changeover. If you start to feed him at 7 and he is still going at 25 past, then that's fine, at least you know he is taking a good feed. Don't feed him till he is asleep though, as once that habit is established it is really hard to break. You need to put him down while he is still awake a bit so he learns to fall asleep on his own. Otherwise he will grow up always needing your breast to fall asleep and that's no fun for you at all.

[SSM]

Thanks for the info. Its really helpful. We are currently using the sainsbury brand of nappies which are very good as well, but I could try the pampers for the night-time. I change him at 10pm and then in the morning unless I hear him poo during the 3/4am feed, then I change him at that time as well. I am already giving him a bottle of EBM at DF as my husband does that and I try to catch some sleep.

Lets see how things progress, fingers crossed. Either ways I am definitely coming back to the forum as I have found it and you very very helpful. Thanks