Wont take a nap unless ....

[arial]

he is way pass overtired, by then, I seen him pass out (no literally).  Well, in the past three days my son has decided that he wants to play instead of taking his afternoon nap.  He has gone as long as 5 to 6 hours without napping. 

You see, we used to rock him to sleep and this helped us keep him on schedule.  Three weeks ago, we decided that we needed him to start falling asleep on his own so we decided that the way to do it was to put him in the crib 30-45 minutes before his naptime and allow him to stay play or do whatever he wants to do until he fall asleep on his own.  Well, this worked until three days ago.  Of course, my son would play for 30 min to 1 hour before falling asleep.  In the past three days, he has decided that he is going to play instead of taking his afternoon nap - so he has played for as long as 2 -3 hours and still does not fall asleep.

You see my mom would try to put him to sleep as we have been doing, but if he plays for 1 hour or so and she sees that he is nowhere near falling asleep, she gets him out of the room.  We feed him quickly since it is almost time for his next meal and we try again.  Today, I spend 2 1/2 hours trying to get him to sleep with the method above.   I knew that he was sleepy because in the middle of this 2 1/2 hours, we stopped so that he could have a bottle and he fell asleep (for a few seconds) drinking it.  As soon as I put him in bed after he finished the bottle, he got up and played for another hour before collapsing.  I know that he is overtired because he then can only nap for 30 minutes and wakes up really crancky.

Now, I know you probably will recommen PUPD but does anyone have any other suggestions?  I am not so sure that I am ready to do PUPD.  Thanks.

[*Natasha*]

May need to extend awake time what is his routine? Is he crying in his cot or just lying their? PUPD will only work if he is crying and upset.

[arial]

I have forgotten PUPD only works if he is crying.  No he is not crying, most of the time he is walking around the crib playing his toys and singing or talking.  His A time is very long, sometimes between 4-6 hours that is why he ends up crashing in bed when he cannot anymore and that is why he also naps for 30 minutes and gets up wailing because he did not feel rested enough with such a short nap.  I know the short nap is because he is overtired.  I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions as to how to shorted his playing time in the crib before he falls asleep on his own, so that I do not have an overtired baby by the time he falls asleep.

[litomi]

Oh.... ((HUGS)) Miranda was like that few weeks ago. All the sudden, refused to nap and was very very excited, restless. Then we figured out she has runny tummy (very mild tummy bug), we thought she's teething again.
Check if your LO is teething or is feeling uncomfortable (gassy, indigestion, etc.)

[KathrynK]

couple more questions for you....
can you post your routine- that will be helpful in trying to help you
Do you have toys in the cot? I had to take all of them out of the cot when dd was around 7-8 months as she would play with them and not go to sleep. THen she would get overtired. Maybe that is part of the problem now. If he is going to sleep in the cot now without you rocking him then that is brilliant, well done. Maybe he doesn't need that time to play now he is used to the cot.
post your routine for us and we'll have some more thoughts
kathryn x

[arial]

I just put him to bed and removed all the toys in bed except this two items below (but I turned them off)

http://www.fisher-price.com/fp.aspx?st=2341&e=detail&pid=33157&pcat=buocean

http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Fisher%252dPrice-Soother-Flutterby-Dreams/dp/B0002XO5TM

Despite all this, he managed entertain himself by making baby noises and  playing this his lovey (which he needs to fall asleep of course).  He did not follow asleep until 1 hour from the time that I put him in the crib.  Of course, this is better than previous days.  Now, I have to mention that this only happens with his second nap.  With the first nap, he is able to fall asleep in 15 minutes or so and at bedtime it may also take from 5 minutes to 20 minutes (and that is with all his toys in bed)

Here is my routine:

6AM - Wake up, breakfast- bottle and solids
830 or 9 Nap 1 (May last from 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours)
1100AM- Bottle
1145 Solids
1230 or 100PM Nap 2 (the start of this nap depends on what time he woke up from nap 1.  We determine that 3 hours from time he woke up he should be asleep for this nap and put him in bed 30-45 minutes before it so that he can fall asleep)
3pm -Bottle
345PM - Solid
515 to 530PM start bedtime routine
6PM t 630PM - Already asleep

Now wake up time varies from 430AM to 530AM.

Thanks for the help.   He is already up.... only slept 20 minutes again... he is overtired again.

[arial]

Wow... I think that he fell asleep again.  I was about to go into his room, but I got entertain here in the computer... after a minute or so, he stopped crying.  I think he is sleeping again 

[KathrynK]

Another question....
now that he is used to the cot, what's the reason for putting him down 30-40 minutes before he should be going to sleep? The reason I ask is that I know if I get dd's tired cues wrong and put her down too early she ends up playing and then doesn't go to sleep when she should and ends up overtired. Also usually a baby uses up less energy by having quiet time in the cot rather than actively playing, so maybe you need to keep him up longer and make his wind down time in the cot a lot shorter so he is using up his energy and is tired enough for a decent nap.
ps that's great that he went back to sleep. Do you usually get him straight up when he wakes? If dd wakes early from her nap I always give her a good 10- 15 minutes to go back to sleep by herself. Maybe he needs that time too.

[*Natasha*]

That is a long awake time from second nap to bedtime???

[arial]

KathrynK:  I think we put him in bed that early because sometimes it takes him that long to fall asleep once in the crib.  Today, I put him in the crib 15 minutes before it made 3 hours for his A time, and still took him an hour to fall asleep.  So if I do the math, by the time he went down for his second nap he had been awake almost 4 hours.  I am not sure if I make myself clear as to the reason we put him in bed 45 minutes before bed time.  I cannot extend A time anymore, I already have an overtired child.

Also, today is the first time that he wakes from his nap and goes back to sleep on his own.  I will certainly try to delay me going in once it happens again.  Thanks for the suggestions.

Natasha:  My schedule is just that... a planned schedule.  Lately, we have not been able to follow it.  But if you see, if he is able to sleep one and half to two hours for his second nap, by the time he has fallen asleep, it would have been 3 to 3.5 hours.