too long of nap??

[mamabarney]

first a little background...

Silas is almost 7 months old
He wakes around 8 am, nurses, plays/takes a bath and naps around 11ish. he then naps for about 3 hours.  When he wakes, he nurses and then plays, wanting to nap around 4, but not always consistently. he then wants to nap again around 8 or so, waking up around 12 am to eat.  Then at 2/3. then again at 5.  and then at 8 and so it goes.

We swaddle him, give him his paci and he falls asleep.  He does a great job putting himself down, but not consistently through the night.

When I nurse him, it is always both sides, but the time ranges from 15-20 minutes. 

He usually wakes up 2-3 times in the night, but 5 am is morning (right??)

He is sort of a pouter, not really getting too fussy, but he can really cry until i nurse him. Keeping all of us awake (i have a 3 year old...and my husband)

I have come in, shushing him, patting or resting my hand on his tummy. Offered him a paci, picked him up or just come in to speak a consoling word.  When I walk out of the room, he goes ballistic as if to say "that's NOT what I want and you aren't listening!"

My daughter was a great BW baby and followed the routine quite well.  I have to say I DO NOT let him cry very long because his pediatrician thought he had a seizure disorder (which thankfully he does not).  He would cry so hard that he would convulse and pass out.  He did this from day 2 of his life (5-6 times a day) until now, he does it about once a week.  I know now that it is not harming him to let him cry, but i feel like i have ruined him by not letting him cry. 

He is a very peaceful little guy...tender...loving to nurse.

He WILL NOT TAKE ANY SOLIDS whatsoever.  Not cereal with breastmilk, not fruit, not ANYTHING!  We have tried other people feeding him, a variety of spoons, locations, etc. When he sees the spoon coming he just goes nuts.  Not sure why...i have offered him everything under the sun....including whipped cream.  He just doesn't want it.  I have been offering it to him every day, with no luck.
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)

He does take a paci, and he can't get to it at night because of being swaddled (he still can't go to bed without being swaddled) but he does have the dexterity to pick it up now and get it back in his mouth.

He does have a lovie, but only in name.  I lay it next to him as part of our bedtime routine...I swaddle him, lie him down, turn out the light, turn on his "white noise" machine, lay his lovie by him, give him his paci and he goes right to sleep. 

I know this is a lot of info.  I'm just VERY TIRED!  He's so different from my daughter.

Do you think waking him up after a 1.5 hour nap would be better instead of the 3 hours?? He just seems so content after a long sleep!  When would I lay him down again??

[Colin Macs Mom]

I think you have a heck of a lot of things going on here, so I have asked some other mods to take a look here as well. Personally, I think that the three hour nap is definitely part of the problem. I bet it would help a lot to get into more of an actual EASY routine since it sounds like you're doing more of a daily routine like you would with a much older baby. There are some examples of EASY routines for each age group in the EASY forum under activity, you should give that a look.

My daughter was a great BW baby and followed the routine quite well.  I have to say I DO NOT let him cry very long because his pediatrician thought he had a seizure disorder (which thankfully he does not).  He would cry so hard that he would convulse and pass out.  He did this from day 2 of his life (5-6 times a day) until now, he does it about once a week.  I know now that it is not harming him to let him cry, but i feel like i have ruined him by not letting him cry. 

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that you WANT to let him cry?

Between the solid refusal and crying like that, I wonder if there's something physical going on, like reflux?

[owelley]

I was hoping you could post your routine so we could have a look.  I agree with Jessica about the 3 hour AM nap.  your current routine being for a much younger infant.  I also recommend the EASY routine to structure your day so that the times to eat are consistent and I feel that hunger is an issue.  Here is something you could shoot for.

8-E
8:30-A
9:00-solids
12- E
12:30-A
1:00- solids
2-2:30-S
4:30-E
5:00-A
6:00-solids
7:00- bedtime routine and last E (breastfeed)
8:00pm- S

I have read that in some cases, it is ok to forgo solids for the first year of your childs life.  This may not be the case here since your lo is waking up hungry.  Here is a couple helpful links for you. 

The Gentle Removal Plan

Sample EASY routines from 6-12 months

[binxyboo]

Just on the solids issue, I would not worry about that much at this point. Some babies start later then others. i AM GOING TO POST A LINK HERE ABHOUT BABY LED WEANING WHICH YOU MAY FIND INTERESTING http://www.borstvoeding.com/voedselintroductie/vast_voedsel/rapley_guidelines.html
Riley was not all that interested in solids at that age, in fact not until he was after a year old did he become somewhat enthusiastic about food. He was a big boy as well, just perfectly content to nurse and nurse! It did worry me at the time, but looking back, what better nutrition could he have had? If the sight of spoons freak him out, have you tried just letting him sit at the table while the family is eating and let him share bits of whatever you are having? When the pressure is off, sometimes they are inclined to be more eager to try them. Riley would eat little bits of vegetables, bread, whatever as finger foods. Sometimes he would just explore the foods with his hands, which is all part of the process. If he is not eating solids, then you can definitely expect a few night feeds, even when they are on solids, some babies, esp. bf babies, still enjoy nursing at night. Especially at that age when they are so busy during the day that sometimes they don't focus fully on their feeds and don't take enough in.

[mamabarney]

I guess i should clarify...I go in to Silas at every peep, pout, whimper.  Mostly, I think, because I'm still nervous.  After going through so many tests with him, wondering what could be wrong, it's hard to let go.  It is very frightening to see him konk out after a convulsion.  And no matter how much a dr. says he's not hurting himself or his brain, it still breaks my heart.  SOME of the time, if i get to him before he's very pouty, i can divert his attention and prevent him from passing out and heading down that path.

I DO not, (nor did i with my daughter) let him cry it out.  But she did learn to gradually soothe herself and eventually did not even pout at all!  I feel like I'm robbing him of that learning experience by hovering over every little sound. 

[rebecaq]

Hi there,

First of all I'd like to send you some big {{{HUGS}}}.  You have a lot of issues to deal with and it can not be easy with a 3yo and a dh. 

I believe that Michelle has given you some great advice regarding solids. At 7 months I would place ds in his high chair and just plop cooked spaghetti in front of him and let him do whatever he wanted. Yes, very very messy and most of it ended up on the floor but it was a great food experience for him. I am a firm believer that babies need to make a positive relationship with food. And as Michelle said, if there is pressure or anxiety it will just make things worse.  You mentioned he has the dexterity to place his paci in his mouth, so finger foods may be the way to go

I believe tacking solids will help his nighttime sleep.  Michelle is right that it's not a huge problem, but I do think it's a good idea to start developing his positive relationship with food.  And to have a bit more food sticking to his ribs may help

Now, I think you have hit the nail on the head by thinking his morning nap is too long.  I know it feels awful to wake them at the 1.5 hour mark. I myself had a rough time doing it myself. But believe me, it works.

And setting up an EASY routine is necessary at this point and time.  Considering he's waking 2 or 3 times during the night I think he needs to maybe be on 3.5 hour EASY so he can get used to the flow of things. It will also sneak an extra feed in there to help him get calories during the day and maybe not needing them as much at night.  This what a typical 3.5 hour day looks like
3.5-hour EASY:

E: 7.00 wake up and feed
A: 7.30 or 7.45 (depending on how long feed takes)
S: 8.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 10.30
A: 11.00 or 11.15
S: 12.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 2.00
A: 2.30 or 2.45
S: 3.30 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 5.30 feed
A: inc. bath time
E: 7.00/7.30 (cluster feed)
S: 7.30/8pm bedtime
Y: the evening is yours
E: 10 or 11pm dreamfeed

I want to make clear that these are ideal times, but not set in stone. Work with the times that work for you and ds 

About the crying, wow hun, that's a tough situation     Is a complaining type cry enough to send him into convulsions? Or is it more a full fledged cry that sets them off? I'm just wondering because there are times that babies complain because they are tired, overwhelmed, overstimulated but it's not a strong cry. I thinking out loud here to see if there's a way that you could listen super closely to his complaining so you can determine when is the point that you need to go in. Boy, with a situation like yours it's tough, because finding the happy medium between momma's needs and baby's needs is very delicate. Maybe try to go to him, but not pick him up. Shhhing him and reassuring him from the side of his crib may be a way to break hte dependency you feels he has on you.

Yikes, I hope in this long post I was able to offer you some help 

- Beca

[binxyboo]

How are things going with Silas?

[mamabarney]

Things are going better.  He seems to like the new schedule.  We go to bed later and get up later, so we've adjusted accordingly.  This will be the first whole day that he has done this new schedule exactly.  We will see how it goes!

Thanks for all of your advice and support.  Each baby is so different.  I never realized how much one thing would not work for another!

[rebecaq]

I'm so glad to hear that things have improved! 

Keep us posted

- Beca