Crib party at 4am!!!

[Sungrl]

For several weeks now, my 4.5 month old DD Zoey has been going to bed really early - between 6:15 and 7:00pm.  She has done REALLY well with this (going down with no problem, sleeping very soundly, etc), and was usually sleeping until 7 or 7:30am with a dreamfeed at 11pm and one waking to nurse (and right back to sleep) between 4 and 5:30am.  She has even slept right through the night until 6:30am once or twice. 

Zoey takes short naps during the day (45 minutes), we're lucky if she gets one 1.5 hour nap in the morning.  So, by evening she is one sleepy girl!  This past week she has started waking 45 minutes after I put her down fort the night, as though it was a nap.  Once I resettle her, she will often wake a second time, which is really unusual for her. 

She also has been waking in the night and STAYING awake for one or more hours!!! 

A few nights ago she woke at 4am.  I fed her as I always do, but she was still awake when she was done, which was odd.  I laid her down thinking she would soon fall asleep but 30 minutes later her mobile came on (she knows how to kick it on)!  I went and shut it off (and actually took it down), swaddled her again and went back to bed.  I listened to her talk until around 5:20am when I finally went back in and nursed her again, this time she fell asleep.

Last night she woke at 2:30am.  If she wakes before 4am I usually leave her to see if she will go back to sleep and normally she does.  Last night she talked for a bit, cried for a few minutes, but then stopped and was still awake!  At 3:45 I finally went and fed her and she went back to sleep until 7am.

Is she going to bed too early or something???  She always slept better if she went down earlier but maybe that has changed??  I have no idea how to keep her up later, as it is she is sometimes up for 3 hours before bed and is SO tired and grumpy!!!  If she took longer naps she could be up later but I haven't had a lot of luck with that...

Here is what a good day generally looks like...
wake 7:30am - she never wants to eat at this time because she usually is up around 5:30 to eat and go back to sleep
activity 7:30-8:30
eat 8:30am
wind down for nap 9:00am
nap 9:15-  10:45 - sometimes only 45 min
eat 11:30 or 12
wind down for nap 12:30pm
nap 12:45pm - 1:30
eat 3:00pm
wind down for nap 3:15
nap 3:30 - 4:15
eat 5:00pm
bath, massage, Pjs 6:00pm
bed between 6:30 and 7:00pm (I feed her again here)
dreamfeed 11:15pm
she normally gets up once between 4:30 and 5:30 to nurse

If her first nap is short everything is moved earlier and she has her last nap at around 3.  By 6pm she wants to go to bed on those days...

Any ideas???
Thanks!
Shannon

[shimzy]

The only thing I can see is that her last awake time of the day is 2.5 to 3 hours long.

Have you tried having her in bed and sleeping by 6:15pm?

[Colin Macs Mom]

Shannon, I also think that last A time is too long for her age. But also those 45 minute naps are also a problem for sure. By the end of the day she's probably overtired, and then with that long A time that's a recipe for night wakings. Waking and then staying awake like what you described almost always indicates overtiredness.

What have you tried to extend the naps?

[Sungrl]

I agree she is probably overtired.  I just wasn't sure she would be waking SO long after going to bed if that was overtiredness.

I have tried the following to extend her naps...

• W2S several times, never worked
• going in and applying pressure when she wakes...she often jolts or stirs for 30-40 minutes!  Never had much success with this
• nursing her back to sleep, which does often work but I don't want to make this a habit!
• I've played with her A times - shorter, longer, etc
• leaving her in her crib for 15 minutes after she wakes, even if she is crying - every now and then she will go back to sleep, but sometimes she does only to wake 5 minutes later
• when she was younger I could nap with her and she would sleep longer but now she won't fall asleep with me.  Again, not a habit I want to get into anyway

I have also been known to hold her for entire naps in order to keep her sleeping.  I stopped doing this after I sleep trained her (stopped rocking her to sleep).  This ALWAYS worked though.

I would LOVE to find a solution about the naps!  Often, even if I try to get her to go back to sleep when she wakes after 45 minutes, she will be obviously tired (rubbing her eyes, grumpy, etc).  I don't know what to do at that point.  I thought we were making progress for a while there because she was taking at least one long nap per day, but that is not consistant at all either. 

I had her in bed and sleeping by 6:15 the night she woke at 4am and was up until 5:30.  I really don't want to be putting her down earlier either.  The only thing I can think to do is have her take a cat nap around 5:00 and then try to get her to bed around 7 or 7:30.  Often though, she will not go to sleep at 5:00.  Also, she seems to wake up earlier if she goes to bed later!   

Shannon

[Colin Macs Mom]

I think I'll ask a nap mod to take a peek here in case they have other ideas... but when you tried W2S, how long did you do it for? It will take at LEAST 3 days to kick in.

[Mariek]

Shannon

I noticed some of Zoey's feed are still at 3 hours - have you tried extending her to a 4 hr EASY. At four months they should start to be able to handle more awake time so she should be okay with the longer spell.

Moving to the  4 hr EASY really helped with Ewan's 40 minute naps. Now he'll have 1.5-2 hours in a morning and then either one 1.5 nap and a cat nap or three 40 minute naps.

love

[binxyboo]

How is little Zoeys reflux, is she still on meds for it?

If she is awake during the night, not fussing or crying, then I would let her be and try to go back to sleep yourself.

[Colin Macs Mom]

I was just going ask the same about the reflux....

[Sungrl]

Marie - the reason Zoey is eating every 3 hours (sometimes even less) is because her pediatrician said that smaller meals, more often was much better for her reflux than 3 or 4 large meals.   She is staying awake much longer - between 1.75 and 2.25 hours though... does the eating make some kind of difference with naps???  I suppose I could try to have her go longer but I have heard a lot of information stating that smaller, more frequent meals are better when a baby has reflux...
Would you mind PMing Ewan's routine for me? 

She is still on medication for reflux and she just had the dose increased a few weeks ago.  We'll be going back again in another 2 weeks for another look. 

I don't think 12 hours of sleep overnight is too much... I know a lot of people with children Zoey's age who's baby sleep that long.  From what I have read, she needs around 15 hours of sleep (some children need more, some less) in 24 hours so she's actually right on that most days.  Marie, doesn't Ewan sleep 12 hours overnight??

I do think a lot of the problem is that she is going too long for her last stretch of awake time.  Yesterday I managed to get her to sleep for 1.5 hours for her last nap so she was only up for 2 hours before she was asleep for the night at 7pm.  She did wake 40 minutes after she went down, but it only took a few minutes for me to settle her back to sleep and then she only woke at 4:30am to nurse and went right back to bed.  She was up early though - at 6:30 or so.

This evening though, she was up for over 2.5 hours before bed so I imagine tonight will not be so great...
Wake 6:40am
nap at 8:30-9:15 - I tried to get her back to sleep but no luck
nap at 11:15-1pm - she woke at 12 but I got her back to sleep
nap at 3-3:45 - I tried to get her back to sleep here too but no luck
so then at 5:15 she was very fussy and I tried to get her to take a cat nap.  She would not settle to sleep so I gave up after 15 minutes because I didn't want her falling asleep too late.
bed 6:25pm

Just not sure what to do when a day like this happens.    I would much rather she go to bed around 7 or 7:30 and sleep until 7 or 7:30 (I am SO not a morning person and 6:30 is TOO EARLY!) but I cannot possibly extend her last awake time any longer.  If I could only get her to nap around 5pm it would work out but I never can get her to sleep at that time... 

Suggestions anyone?!?!?!?!?

[Sungrl]

I guess I should correct my post and say she usually does not sleep MORE than 12 hours at night.  Sometimes it is a little more (12.5 or even 13) and sometimes it is 11 hours or so.  She has always slept for 11-12 hours at night though, even when she went to bed at 11pm when she was very young... she would always wake around 6 or 7am and be up a very short time and then go back down until 11am or so. 

I think she makes up for her short naps overnight.  I don't see how her getting 12 hours of sleep at night could possibly be a bad thing though.  I would be willing to put her down later, I just don't see how I can accomplish this.  I cannot get her to nap between 5 and 6pm.