Need Help with 13 mth who won't fall asleep on her own

[allyphant]

My dd is 13mth old and has always had a problem going to bed at night or taking naps.  She had to be held and rocked to sleep before laying her down for the night in her crib.  She would take a bottle before bed and then up onto either my or my husband's shoulder.  I did get her to sleep through the night around 6-7 months.  I know she can soothe herself back to sleep but it has become a chore lately w/ her bedtime.   Her personality is very aggressive and is constantly moving about.  If she is awake in her crib, she always cries.  If I am in the room w/ her when she awakes she expects to be picked up and cries until someone does pick her up.  If I lay her down to sleep and she suddenly awakens, she will cry and I never walked out on her b/cI was afraid she would think she was being abandoned.  But now that she is older I think she knows better and that once I leave the room I am not gone forever.  I have tried to PU/PD method and she thought it was a fun game.  So I gave it up b/c I was scared she would associate bedtime as playtime.  We are also trying to wean her off the bedtime bottle but she still gets one for now until we can teach her to go to bed on her own. I don't want to incorporate too many changes in her routine and confuse her.  Any advice would be great!

[yaya]

Hiya! I had a lot of sleep issues with my son and recently at 15 months decided to attempt again to sleep train him. I would suggest that pu/pd is not suitable for your LO's age. I would recommend walkin/walk out, however, my DS was VERY dependent on me for sleep so I felt more comfortable using gradual withdrawal and the chair method (thanx everyone!) If you want I can talk you through what I did, what you can expect etc

[mari]

allyphant, could you post your daily routine and we'll see if we can get some advice for you?

[allyphant]

yaya & mari - thanks for responding to my post

Our daily routine varies during the work week since my husband and I both work.  Mon – Fri, I take her out of her crib while she is still sleeping to change her diaper and pack her up in her carseat to be dropped off at my inlaws.  She is there until my husband picks her up and the times vary from noon until 3pm.  She eats lunch, drinks milk, plays and takes naps at my inlaws.  They put her in a swing to sleep.  I get home around 3:30pm and I take over mostly for the night in regards to her care.  My husband takes this time to do paperwork for our business.  I play w/ her and usually give her a bottle of milk around 4:30pm.  We do not let her nap past 4pm.  We have noticed that if she sleeps past 4pm, she gets a second wind and doesn’t go to bed until really late (beyond 10pm).  She normally eats dinner in her highchair around 6-6:30pm.  She gets a bath around 7-7:30pm and plays until bedtime.  When we see her showing us signs that she is sleepy (rubbing her eyes, pointing to her room, or laying on the floor), either my husband or I take her to her room w/ a bottle of milk and sit in the glider.  The lights are off and only a night light is turned on in her room.  She usually finishes her bottle.  Rarely does she fall asleep while she is taking her bottle.  Sometimes she gets sleepy from eating on her bottle and her eyes are closed when she is done.  Once she is done, whoever took her to the room puts her on their shoulder for a few minutes.  If she is already asleep, it is a very short amount of time then we lay her down in her crib.  We always try to lay her on her side, it is just habit and we noticed it worked better that way when initially laying her down.  She does move about during the night b/c we have noticed her in different positions and locations w/in her crib.  She is usually sleepy between 8-9:30pm.  We have been trying to get her to go to bed no later than 8pm, we would like 7-7:30pm.  On Sat & Sun, I am home.  I let her sleep until she wakes and it is varies from 7-9am.  I pick her up and change her diaper and take her down to give her a bottle then we play for about an hour until she needs another diaper change.  At this point, I normally give her a quick bath and change her out of her pajamas and then we go back to playing for another 1-2 hour.  If I stay at home, I take her up to her room and try to get her to nap in her crib.  If I have to run an errand, she usually falls asleep w/o any problems in her carseat while I am driving.  If I do put her down for a nap in her room, I have to first give her a bottle of milk, I think it soothes her.  Then the rest of the day is similar to the work week.  My husband works 7 days a week and gets off at various times but usually by 2pm at the latest, but on weekends he tries to be home by lunch time.

[mari]

ok, I'm not sure of when her naps are but can I suggest that you put her for her nap no later than 5.5 hours after she wakes, then her bedtime should be 5.5 hours after she wakes from her nap.  If you stick to this you should be able to rule out overtiredness.

Also, when you give her a bottle, have a little story or something, just enought to keep her awake bt not enough to stimulate (IYKWIM)  although falling asleep on the bottle usually means that Alex is overtired.

For getting to sleep, it would be better to lay her in her cot and do WIWO, are you familiar with this?  There is a thread in the FAQ of this forum. 

Alex was a terrible sleeper and I trained her this way and have never looked back.  You might think that she isn't ready for bed, but putting her to bed when she isn't overtired will take some getting used to for he so bear with it.  Also, you say that she is agggressive, I bet it's down to tiredness.  It's amazing how long they can play for, even though they are tired, but really, plenty of sleep makes for much happier babies.

HTH

[allyphant]

Mari,

Thanks again for your suggestions.  Alli usually takes 1-2 naps a day, totalling no more than 2.5 hours each time.  I am not sure exactly when she naps when she is at my inlaws.  During the weekends, she naps about 4-6 hours after waking for her initial nap.  If she does take a second nap it depends on what time it is.  If it is too late for nap, we skip the second nap.  We try to be consistent and not let her nap beyond 3:30 or 4pm (depending how what time she awoke and how that days napping schedule went). I have heard and know briefly about the WI/WO method, I am just scared that trying something new w/ her will cause a step back instead of a step forward.  I will try anything once though.  What I meant by describing her as 'aggressive' is that is her personality.  I never thought the patting her down method in her crib would work b/c of her personality.   She is VERY strong minded and VERY active, never sits still for more than 5 seconds.  I think that is one of the reason she is still so small but eats well, she is less than 18lbs!  I am also going to bring back our bedtime routine of reading books before bedtime.  How long did it take you to teach Alex to sleep on her own?  I am just so scared that knowing Alli's personality that WI/WO might upset her more.  She REALLY likes to be held and picked up.  I just have a lot of anxiety and fear into letting her CIO and making her scared/frightened of her crib or if she gets too playful, she will associate her crib w/ playtime.  I am going to read up on the FAQ section regarding WI/WO method.

[mari]

It took about 4 days before I saw an improvement, then we had a setback, but I kept at it and I would say that it was brilliant (a miracle my DH called it) after 2 weeks.

You know your daughter better than anyone and there is another thread called teaching independant sleep methods.  It explains different types of methods.  Whichever you choose, let us know and we will help you as much as we can.

Alex is a strong character also and she tried all sorts, even jumped out of her cot once!!!  But one thing they all have in common, they need to sleep and the best gift we can give them is to help them do it so that that they can enjoy and benefit from it as much as possible.  (We also become better parents from it as we get to sleep more too!!!  )

Hope that helps.

[audiobrunette]

  My 2 yr old slept in his crib wonderfully...now 3 months into the "big boy bed" he is unable to fall asleep on his own, and wakes 2-3 times a night screaming...so I'm not much help...I'm sleep deprived & going crazy 'cause I'm also breastfeeding my newborn @ night...agh!

[yaya]

Hi there allyphant, I just wanted to offer some support as I was terrified of trying wi/wo too, but its worth it, it really is. LOs just keep getting heavier as they grow! So soon you will find it really tiring to keep rocking her. My suggestion is if youì're not feelign 100% sure of wi/wo dont do it, use what is called gradual withdrawal ,it worked realyl well for us. As MAri suggested do not let her fall asleep on the bottle as this will create a sleep association. If you need to, give her the bottle in the sitting room or elsewhere ffrom her bedroom.
Heres what I did, after bottle layed DS down and stood back, when he cried, I went to him, layed him down and kept my hand on his back (or patted) when he was calm enough I removed hand and stood back. repeat as necessary. Trust me the first few times it will take a long time and its exhausting but u'll feel sooo relieved when she evetually lies down by herself and falls asleep! And the time the process  takes will keep getting shorter. Soon she will prob not cry when u put her down in which case go and sit on a chair away from the crib or stand by the door. This way she can see you and won't feel abandoned but will get on with falling asleep independently. When this works well, then try WI/WO.

HTH