Help! When do you give in? Doing pat/shhh & 5 wk old has not napped in 10 hours!

[FloydsMom]

I want to teach my 5 week old boy to nap in his crib. He will only nap on a chest or in the Bjorn when I walk. We are doing pat/shhh all day. But after four 3hr cycles, he has only cumulatively slept 1 hour!! I have removed all stimulation & cut back activity to diaper change & wrap only. He is so obviously overtired, but just can't get himself to sleep or back to sleep. He usually does well at night, but I see that deteriorating as the days get worse.
I can't bear to keep doing pat/shhh all day when he never gets a good sleep. I feel desperate & thus give up and let him chest sleep for an hour. The tactics have helped us soothe him, and we can end screaming faster (yay!), but the no sleep seems like a downward spral. What do we do?

[*Natasha*]

Are you on a 3hr EASY,how many night waking are you having? Breastfeed or bottle?

[FloydsMom]

Ooops. Sorry for the lack of specifics.

He is on a b/f 3 hour EASY. We don't yet get the S&Y, though.

Bedtime is around 8, but we only make it to 5 or 6 for wake time.

Every other night or so, he doesn't take well to the first night shift, and we've been giving in and letting him sleep on dad. We get 4 - 4.5 hours between feeds with this tactic, then he'll have a 3 and 3. No exact clockwork for the wakings, but the windows are pretty consistent. So, depending on how he goes to sleep on the first one, I get to a an 11, 2 and 5 feed or a 9, 1:30 and 5. He is much better at putting himself to sleep at night.

The big stress is doing this training for naps and watching the day dissapate with no real sleep happening. Eventually I feel we have to give in and let the little guy get an hour or two straight. Even if we do have to hold him or walk about in the Bjorn.

Also, I know we don't do pu/pd at this age, but how much can I let the crying escalate before I pick him up, and then how sleepy do I allow him to get before putting him back down. He can calm within minutes, but I don't want to stress hium out by plopping him back in right away.

[yaya]

HUGS sweetie, I know how u feel, it is draining but if you want to teach indep sleep u need to perserve, its worth it in the end!
Remember that DS is very young so maybe dont expect too much? WHat have u done for training so far?

[FloydsMom]

Well, we got the book a couple of weeks ago, when we realized he was not a good napper. We've tried a few sporadic days of crib-nap training, only soothing him to calm, then in the crib. But after long days of no success, we give in and rock him down & let him stay on us.
It's getting worse,which led me to this website. Here I learned about pat/shh, which is not in the 1st book. So I committed to sticking with it for 4-5 days, but this is only day 2. Day one not encouraging. Like I said before, I get pretty freaked out when he goes all day with no true sleep. How much deprivation can the little guy take? It eventually feels cruel & I just have to "parent" him down.

[yaya]

first off, theres plenty of time for sleep training and if you feel like both of u need to relax and sleep, then do whatever it takes for now. With regards to the training, you need to give it at least a week if not more really. Do you think you have understood the method well? I can talk you though it if you like. Could there be any other health issue that's upsetting him when he isnt upright?

[FloydsMom]

I certainly don't want to rush him. I just don't want to reinforce any negative habits I may have begun. If it's normal for some babies to just need holding, that's fine. I like holding him. Chores & sleep can wait.
I am confident that he does not have a health issue. He lays happily for playtime, diaper change & night time. I truly get the "overtired" cranky feeling when he cries at naptime.
I understand the process up to when he's REALLY crying in the crib. He will then either escalate until he pases out (no good!) or I must pick him up to soothe. Will the picking up negate what comes before?
Also, I keep reading about these guys sleeping 15+ hours a day. I'm not sure we're even getting 12. This must be bad for development, no?
On the bright side, reducing "activity time" to change, coo & bundle only has reduced his overstimulation tension greatly.

[yaya]

Nooo absolutely not, u must pick him up when he's upset, altho at this stage I'd focus on shh and patting till sleepy then putting him down. U then gradually increase the wakefulness before putting him down until he goes down totally awake but thats not yet.
He should be getting more sleep than that yes. Does he nap in the stroller? its worth taking him out for maybe a hr's walk and nap in the stroller for a few days so u can get over thee overtiredness

[mollynme]

I agree!  Get him to sleep however you can for now and sleep traing when he ( and YOU!!!) are better rested.  We had the same problems with our DS sleeping only 8hrs in 24 - he was diagnosed with reflux....have you ruled that out yet?

Jules X

[nenee]

Im having the exact problems as you! my little one is 4 weeks old and not sleeping well in the day, and i feel hes getting overtired and then i cant get him to sleep so his next sleep pattern is affected and so a viscous circle!  I feel i spend all day shush pating him and trying to get him to sleep all day.  Of course house work etc can wait but we do have a life other than shush patting i have to feed my other son get him to school etc but main thing is little one gets some sleep.  does shush patting an overtired baby cause more stimulation and make him more naggy sometimes i feel it does??? but what other alternatives are there, leaving them to cry which i could never do., rocking them which i feel even at this stage is leading us for further problems down the line? when i look at the easy forum and sleep forum there seems to be so so many mums who are having many problems with the easy programme it makes me wonder does it actually work??? I would be very grateful if other mums could tell me their stories of how it did not work the begining but did eventually just to put my mind at rest! rest being the main achievment we ar looking for eventually!

[yaya]

Well EASy is def not easy LOL but it is worth it, at the end of the day EASY isnt so much a routine as a way of organising day, eat activity sleep. It mainly cuts out the eat to sleep association which creates a prop. The routine and how strict you wanna be about it depends on you.
I do that yes shhpatting can be a little overstinulating when overtired and I would just sit in darkened room and hold tight, maybe have some white noise.
Again, I would get rid of the overtierd monster by napping in stroller or car or whatever till well rested ten re attempt the sleep training
it doesnt work when either or both of you are too stressed so u need a break from it!

[niefrisco]

Hi, first time i've posted on here.  You said you would like to hear a success story:  my baby is 5 months old today.  i desperately wanted a routine so that she wouldn't get overtired.  from day one i tried using a strict routine from gina ford/rachel waddilowe.  It didn't really work, the feed times she got used to, the bedtime she got used to but naps during the day forget it!! and i was usually awake during the night trying anyway to get her back to sleep when she started waking up out of habit not food.

Recently i gave those routines up and tried on the easy schedule.  i used shh/pat and pu/pd at night, the first night was awful she and i hardly got any sleep.  the second night seemed worse because i was tired but was in fact better (i recommend writing it down, i was convinced it was worse). the third night seemed to crack it.  the key is to NEVER bend on what you've decided to do.  whatever method you choose it will work if you are completely consistent.  this means you need your partners complete support.

The naps have fallen into place as well.  Good luck, make sure you understand the methods totally (read the sleep interview with Tracy - it helped me understand.