I terrified, cant see any improvement

[yaya]

I updated my last (of many ) post on this topic but not sure if that worked as never doen it before!
Anyway after a bad week we found the prob (cows milk causing bad reaction) and DS's sleep has really improved. However Bedtime hasnt, in fact its getting progressively worse and I'm terrified, bump is growing and I really wanted to haev sorted this out before I didnt have the energy anymore...can anyone help?
Here's what we do and what usaully happens:

Go to bedroom, have bottle in dark, put DS in cot and sit back on couch in his room (have always had this routine since birth and had very successful independent sleep prior to the bad week i mentioned)
BEFORE, he would roll around an babble for about 15mins then go to sleep
NOW he rolss around for 5 mins then cries, I leave him be as this is usually a mantra cry, he repeats this getting more and more upset each time and finally hysterical. Up until last night I could soothe with pd and a bit of back rubbbing but now he clings to me desperate and wails. LAst nigh after 1 hr I pu and he sunggled up to me for a few mins, I pd again and he took a big sigh and went off to sleep!!!

Question: Why is pu/pd not good for this age? If i really observed DS i think this is what he wants and while I do want to get back to independent sleep, I cannot bear for him to get that upset again and I'm already terrified for tonight's bedtime.

Please please can someone give me some tips???

[aisling]

Hi YaYa

I posted on the other thread, but will copy here too. Hope that is ok and helps.

((((HUGS))))

A x


Glad you figured out the milk allergy earlier than later.

Have you tired using a "key phrase" over an over with T?  Since they are at the age where they are understanding more (everything it seems ) it could be really useful.  I started with Nello by saying this every night.  "Ok sweetie, lay down, here's your bankie, here's your bear, here's your teet teet, sleepy time, I GO....and I COME BACK....Mummy GO...she come back....love you, nite nite.. see you tomorrow."

We play during the day with a blanket where we hide on each other, he is really into hiding on me lately and gets so excited when I go searching for him, so I started hiding on him under the blanket or his room and then when he comes and gets me I say:  "Wehey, you found me... I go...but I came back!"   

Now at night when I leave his room after my little piece, he settles really well. The nights when he is squirming all around and fooling around a bit, when he shouts out to me, I just go to the door and say, LAY DOWN, good boy, nite, nite, I love you, I go, I come back, Sleepy time..."  and I repeat that as often as needed.  Sometimes now when I go walking down the hall, I am just about to get the words LAY DOWN out and he is already nose diving onto his pillow.  I did it for about a week straight to see any results.  HTH.

Aisling x

[Layla]

Yaya - I think the reason they don't use pu is because they are getting heavier and pd is just easier  . Actually I don't know the real answer but thats what I think (and it seems to make sence)  . You know, it could be that he wants some more "mummy time" so have you tried to spend some extra time before bedtime - wind down. More cuddles, more kisses, that kind of stuff. It could help  .

Layla

[Messa]

All I can do is tell you from my experience. 
Our routine is as follows around 7:45 we start telling her it is getting close to night, night time, and that she needs to find her nuggly (lovey) and I keep reminding her its almost time for bed etc then at 8:00 we go into her room rub her down with lotion, brush her hair, brush her teet, give her flouride drops, put in PJ's and sleep sack.  All with some music going then we turn it on to nature sounds sit in the rocking chair and read a book and tell nursery rhymes.  We lay her in bed and turn off all night lights but one and sing "Twinkle" to her and tell her night, night, I love you then we go to the door and tell her nignt, I love you sleep good see you tomorrow.  Usually this is all she needs fair warning that bed is coming and her same routine it normally lasts about 15 mins and she is alseep within 10 mins or so after we close the door.  Ocasionally she will have a rough time and I will go in to tell her night, night, and she asks for up so I will pick her up and rock her telling her nursery rhymes, then I lay her back down sing "Twinkle" again and finish my regluar routine again and that is all she needs. 
So long story short.  Maybe extend your night routine to "warning" bedtime is coming, more together quiet time in his room and as PP said the same key words as you leave and if he still needs you I don't see the harm in picking him up if it doesn't become too big of a habbit KWIM.  Good Luck!!  HTH

[*Natasha*]

Firstly Yaya HUGS
We went through this a few months ago which last off and on for about 3weeks and i think it had alot to do with SA from DH as DD adores her Daddy but doesn't get to spend enough time with her during the week (work sucks). Anyway we end up using gradual withdrawl as WI/WO didn't work with DD. WE have found extending Bedtime routine helped alot so DD could spen more time with DD,they now read a few more stories which is their special time together.

[yaya]

Thanx everyone, I really hadnt thought of extending the windown, it could well be this as recently we seem to be in a bit of a rush at bedtime and usually its bath, bottle and into bed... thanks for the 'food for thought'. I will try this as it really does seem that he just needs a little mroe closeness, mad as it may seem I even thought it was , in part, to do with the bump...I'm not as able to pu and cuddle as much so maybe he's missing it a bit? 
Re: the pu, I dont usually have to do it more than once, he usually gets upset right before he falls asleep and the laying down just makes him so mad.. it gets a million times worse if I try to do this. Always has been like this, its why prior to this, I had NO Interaction whatsoever, DS responded better to that. At the moment, whatever his reasons are he needs a cuddle before going to sleep so I will def try to extend cuddle time before going into bed so he's all cuddled out when he finally gets into bed. Thanx everyone, one last thing, how long is everyone's windown? Ours is only about 10mins at the mo...

[Messa]

Our routine from the time we take her into her room and from the time we close the door is about 15-20 mins.  HTH

[yaya]

thanx guys, well I guess sometimes u need to take a step back to go forward. LAst night I held T till very sleepy then put him down. Tonight he went down into his cot happy and altho it took him 45 mins to fall asleep he didnt get hysterical. I stayed by the cot tho and he occasionally glanced up then layed down again. Maybe we dealing with some SA and this is what he needs right now, I guess gw it is again for us...hope we get back to independent sleep soon, wish us luck!

[Messa]

Good Luck!!  Sometimes it is trial and error to see what it is our LO's want.  I hope that it all figures out in the end.

[*Natasha*]

Good Luck Yaya

[Layla]

Good luck Yaya!!!

For wind down we do bath, on the potty, milk in sippy cup, read about 5 books and sing some of her fav songs. Sometimes talk about the day (well I just remind her what we did during the day). She might question a few things and then I kiss her teddy and wish him a good nights sleep and I give her a kiss/hug and wish her a good night & leave. All up about 30mins (if not more). I went through a phase of just dumping her in cot when the baby was born and I couldn't dedicate so much time to her but that didn't work too well so I encorporated the crying baby in the routine  . Jasmine used to scream her head off in the same room but at least I was there and Isabella wasn't feeling so left out. I would pace up and down with the baby in my arms while reading and singing.

Good luck again
Layla

[Katet]

I haven't read other posts so hope I don't repeat/contradict.
Tbh Id'd stop the bedtime bottle as part of the wind down, his digestive system is "mature" now & in some people they can't settle until their digestion is turned off, so eating right before sleep can stop them from relaxing.
What I used to do when ds#2 was still in a cot (& needed extra comfort) was lean over the side to comfort, I didn't pu or pd, I just leaned over & cuddled him until he relaxed & lay down on his own... now he is in a bed, I just go over & stroke his hair & give a cuddle.

[yaya]

thanx kate! I have thought about this before but the problem is DS has never been into bottles or sippys (this is how i discovered BW, DS had gone 3 days without a drop of milk ) so basically when he regained confidence with bottles he'd only really drink them in the dark. This is how the habit started and now he only has milk before bed and this is the only way he'll take it..in the dark. He doesnt get sleepy at all on it so I know it isnt a prop and I am worried if i try giving bottle someehere else he wont take (DS has MSPI too so is on special milk and I worry eh doesnt get enough): I think u're right tho and I need to brave it and try bottle on sofa proir to bed...

[Katet]

Yaya, ds#2 was bf until 17mo (he self weaned) & never took a bottle & wasn't keen on sippies, does like sports bottles & now at 21mo pretty much mostly has an open cup or a cup with a straw... when he self weaned he wouldn't take any milk & had never really taken much of any other dairy, so I felt a bit anxious about it... anyway he tried a Mcdonalds thickshake his brother was having & that sold him on Milkshakes - now strawberry nesquick, so I can't get him to drink plain milk but he will drink (weak) strawberry milk BUT only through a straw.
So maybe you could try giving him the special milk in a different form at a different time... I found with ds#1 it was too easy to get caught up in the "direct" change, but since ds#2, I do LOTS of thinking outside the square & have settled to a "look at the week" pattern, so no milk oneday can mean 5 milks another & it really does happen like that... ds#1 has been known to eat 4 apples in one day & none for 4 days LOL