NW's making mommy depressed

[Leasmom]

Hello everyone. I am new to this board. I have a daughter which is 8 months old and has never slept well at night. When she was about 3-4 months she did have one 5-6 hour sleep stretch but those days are gone 

She had severe colic for about 4 months and was a little "unhappy" for about 6 months (really fuzzy). She still needs a lot of attention and holding. She has never been able to put herself to sleep, except for maybe two or three times. When she was really small we had to walk around with her and bounce her till she fell asleep, then I was able to teach her to fall asleep lying down beside me, that didn't happen until she was about 4 or 5 months. She takes a paci, but only uses it for naps and bedtime. She is exclusively BF and never gets formula or a bottle (would never take a bottle).

We have a pretty good "go to sleep" routine which involves bath, massage, pj's, nursing then she goes into her crib and is supposed to fall asleep, but lately she is very hard to settle and either starts "playing" or cries and cries allthough I hold her and shush and pat and bounce her. SOmetimes she settles when I lay really close to her and breath in her face..

She is high needs, very big smiles but also very big cries..

I am getting depressed and insomniac as I haven't gotten more than 2-3 hour stretches of sleep since she was born.

Everybody tells me that night weaning is the best way to go. Let her dad take her at night and let her cry in his arms.. We have tried, but a lot of the times I have gone in and fed her as she is truly hungry and really upset..Her nurse also suggested trying to work on her going to sleep by her self at night, which has NOT been going well lately..

I am soo tired. Me and my husband have been fighting all day and this is not the first time  I have high blood pressure which is not caused by any of the most "common" things that I could fix like being overweight or smoking. So my doctor says that being able to sleep a bit better will help. We went to her pedi last week and he prescribed Zantac for silent reflux as she coughs a lot during the night, the first night she slept in 2 four hour stretches  which is really good for her..

I have bought the babywhisperer book and am waiting for it to arrive in the post.

She goes to sleep for the night at 8, but lately she has been extremely tired around 7... Her wakings for the day are all over the place, usually around 6..Then she wakes up after about 3ö to 40 minutes and a couple of times until she has a 2 hour stretch between 23.00 and 1 o clock, after that she wakes up every 2-3 hours, mostly I try to resettle her by giving her the paci, but lately she has been refusing it (pushes it away and cries/screams). She seems very tired during the day and after being awake for about 2-3 hours she is really tired.. I have tried putting her down for naps when she shows tired signs and that is when she sleeps best. 

After reading some other posts here I am confident that she is overtired and in a bad cycle.. What do I do? Set a specific wake up time and go to bed time? If I let her only have 2 naps a day she gets really overtired and is really hard to fall asleep at night. She usually wakes from her second nap around 3 and than it is to long of a wake up stretch till 8 o clock...

Can someone help me please. I know I am rambling on and if you need more info I am happy to answear any questions..

[Kimberly®]

First off {{{BIG HUGS}}} 

you are not alone. It sounds like you've developed a lot of accidental parenting with your LO. Something that most every mother is very formilier with. It also sounds like your LO may be in a state of overtiredness and thats why she isn't sleeping well, and is cranky
By 8 months most LO's can go 8-10 hours at night without a feed (not all)
Would you be able send a basic outline of your day?
When she eats, how much (for BF and solids)
when she sleeps, how long

These may light the way to some answers. Maybe we can help set you on the right track. I will warn you, it wont be easy, and it wont happen overnight, but you will find a lot of help and support here.

[Leasmom]

Thank you for your answer 

This is the routine she had today:

Wake up: 6.30 ( breastfed her back to sleep)
Woke up again: 8.40 BF
9.10: a little apple and mango puree with little bits of organic bread (she started solids at 7 months because she was born one month early, eats a little bit every time, not much, about 1 ounce, she likes a lot better to eat small pieces of bread rather then the purees

First nap: about 11.00 -slept for 40 minutes, then BF

Play and eat a little bit of pumpkin puree

14.20 Second nap-naps for 2 hours
BF, play, bath
19.00 Really tired and cranky, BF and down for the night
20,00 woke again, got paci
21.30 woke again BF for 4 minutes
23.31 still sleeping

I have to say that I have no idea how often she breastfeeds as I feed her whenever she asks for it or is cranky and I try offering and she is often hungry. So she breastfeeds a lot more than I wrote down.



 

I love my daughter sooo much. She was born very small due to my high blood pressure and is not yet 7 kilos ( we live in Iceland). I want her soo much to be happy, I would do anything for her   


OOps, just saw the thread: read before you post, here is some additional info:
She has a lovey, a small lion, but doesn't seem very attached to it. I try to keep it between us when we BF.

I don't think she is teething, these night wakings have been going on for a long time.. She still has no teeth..

For her first nap, we usually lie down on the big bed and I breastfed her and give her the paci and we sleep together (this has been going on for the last month since I am so sleep deprived. She is also able to sleep on her own for this nap).
For her second nap she sleeps in a baby carriage outside, yeah I know it sounds weird, but all Icelandic babies do it hehe. She can fall asleep on her own there with her paci, if I catch her in her tired state.

Hope this additional info helps..

[momofclaire]

Welcome to the boards! 

I am so pleased you have ordered the book as it will be a great reference guide.  Did you order "Secrets" or "Solves all you Problems?" 

I think the first step is to get on a more consistant sch like pp said.  In the meantime you may want to take a look at the EASY forum.  The FAQ section has a ton of info about EASY, for instance, what it is and how to implement it.

 At eight months many babies are taking 2, 2 hour naps.  Most are capable of sleeping through the night without a feed, however this certainly doesn't just happen but you can get there, I promise.
It is a good idea to get your little one on a 12 hour day, 12 hour night schedule.  To do this, it helps to have a set wake time and bed time, however, BW is less about clock watching and more about watching your baby and looking for clues.

Hope this helps.  Post back and I will be sure to point you in the direction of some links which you may find helpful while you wait for the book to arrive. 

Have a look around, you will certainly wish you had stumbled upon us 8 months ago.  There are great women here that provide a wonderful support network.
Myia

[Leasmom]

WoW  Two 2 hour naps??? That would be heaven 
I ordered the "secrets", but got the other book as well in some package deal 

I looked at the EASY forum, but can't seem to find exactly how to implement a schedule.. Do you have any links to get me started? What is the first thing you would do if you were me? Consistent wake up time at about 7 and to bed at 7? Can I start with that, as she seems to always wake up aroun 6-7-ish and be tired for the night around 7?

Another question, if she wakes up at 6 or 6.40 and it is not really her wake up time yet do you wait until it is 7 and then change her and bring her out into the living room to play? What if she sleeps to 8? do I wake her up at 7 no matter what?

Should I try to resettle her without feeding when she wakes tonight and maybe not feed her until it has been more than 4 hours since the last feed?

Sorry for all the stupid questions, I am just so excited to have finally found something that might help us with the NW's. I have bought a lot of other books and tried all sorts of stuff 

Thank you again Myia and  Kimberly

[Kimberly®]

There is no such thing as a stupid question

Since your LO is older you'll find the Solves all your problems more to what you need. secrets is more for younger babies.

I agree a set wake and sleep time is a great starting point.
As is making sure your LO is not snacking which is what it sounds like your LO is doing. I understand the want to do eveything for your LO and to make sure she's never hungery, however avoid the trend to feed at the first sign of grumpyness, its not always hunger. For example with her age if she eats at 7am then is cranky by say 8:30-9am its more likly she's tired, or overstimulated then hunger. At this age its ok to feed more to a routine then to demand. Whats happening I think it that thats how your LO now assosiates comfort and sleep. When she is upset or tired she is bf.
I would suggest (and you'll read this with EASY) that you avoid feeding her to sleep, and the feeding as soon as she is upset. Instead give her the lion you mentioned, or even a cuddle, and you can even leave her be for a few minutes to see if she can settle herself. (as long as she isn't crying, please don't leave her cry)
The idea behind EASY is the routine of it Eat Activity Sleep You time, more then following the clock. Following your LO's cues is the idea. It takes a little practice and some getting used to.

You are an excellent mom and I know you want whats best for your LO. You'll be in for a few rough weeks, but I know you can fix things up for you and your LO.

For eating if your LO doesn't care for puree's don't be afread to introduce soft fruits, veggies, and other foods. Do so slowly just like you would puree's. Some LO's don't like the texture of purees, my DD lived for a few months on banana, bread, green beans, sweet potato's, cheerio's, some other cereals, and cheese. (9 months for the cheese or ask doctor) Take it slow and watch her but let her try them out. Try and give 2-3 meals (small meals bout 3-4oz each, more or less is thats what she wants) Follow her lead.

As for starting EASY take a few days and just watch your LO. Really watch her, try holding of bf a bit too if you feel comfortable, not enough to ruin your supply, what you want is steady feed times, not a drop in bm. It'll be a balenceing act for you. Ask the wonderful ladies in the breastfeeding forums they can help you with that.
For 3-4 days write down everything you do all day with her. Find her paturns. Feel free to post them her we can help you with them. Then you can start by weaning the feed to sleep assosiation, just do activity (even a diaper change if need be) so she learns its ok to sleep without it. Also read up on Pick Up/Put down your going to need that, have your husband read up on it too, it'll actually be better if he does it since he wont smell like breastmilk, and it'll be less tempting for him to feed her    I know some mom's leave at night for a few days (if you feel comfortable, Tracy did this with a family on her show as well, though I think the baby was a little older I'm not sure) The key is to find what works for you and your family.

I wont lie, it'll be a lot of work for you both, you have to reteach her new self soothing habbits, but you also have to retrain (so to speak) yourself too. Just be consitent and it will get better.

HTH

[momofclaire]

Hi, Kimberly has given you some great advice.  Here are some links which contain info you may find helpful.

Starting Easy with the older baby
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69369.0

What is easy?
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63534.0

Sample Easy schedules
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10386.0

I hope this helps.  Oh, and I second the notion that there is no stupid question.

[Leasmom]

Thank you again soo soo much   I am so thankful to you for taking the time to "talk" to me and help me. I am going to take the next few days and write down everything we do. Try to hold out on the BF a little bit. and check out the BF forum. She is spirited though   I just read through the 5 different characters and though sometimes I wish she was an angel, she is definetely spirited hehe. But she is of course always my angel.

I will be consistent with the 7 am wake up time too, although it is more like 6 for her maybe it is ok to let her play in her cot for some time if it is not 7

And no, I would never let her cry on purpose, the thing is I have spent the major part of her first 8 months trying to make her not cry, because she gets so easily upset   She is a happy baby though, people love her because she is such a character.

Should I post what I observe here on this link?

[momofclaire]

I would love to help you through this time but if you think your "problem" is addressed better in another forum then post there.
I think your biggest challenge right now (and most important) is going to be getting her on EASY.  Certainly write everything down as that will help you discover any patterns.  You may find that she is already on some form of EASY thatc can be tweaked just a bit.  Hey, we can hope, right

Knowing your babies "type" is really quite helpful.  She will always be your angel but knowing she's got a bit of spirit in her will help you learn to understand her better, and in the long run make you both much happier.

Certainly post back with questions or progress or whatever, and again welcome! 
myia

[Kimberly®]

I agree post it where you think you need to for the most help. You'll find a lot of people here willing to step up and really help people. We've all been there at one point or another, some a little better, some worse, some just the same. Its wonderfull to know your not alone. Especially if like me, your a first time mom.

My DD is Spirited too bte.. and will a lot of hard work and consistency she is now an Angel most of the time