Merged topic: 5hr A time and reading cues

[Mamalou]

Hi
my LO is 12mo.  Here's our usual routine:

5.30-6 wakes
first nap is 930 or 10, I wake after 45, but tried today after 30
then he's able to be awake happily for 5 hrs which puts
2nd nap at 3 or after---and he sleeps 1.5 to 2 hrs....
bedtime at 7.30

I tried moving bedtime to 8 recently because we were having trouble getting him to sleep (since his 2nd nap would end so late) but that seemed to cause an earlier waking of 4.30 or 4.45, so back to 7.30...
and I've also tried (starting today) to wake him after 30 from first nap...to help the 2nd not fall so late...

I've been reading up in BSWAYP about the 2-1 nap switch because I don't know how else I can get around this...but she has pushing the first nap later and later ...
(which I tried ...he CAN go to 10 --but yesterday and the day before he woke at 4.45 so he was ready at 9.15...) but, if I continue to push that 1st nap later, then what happens to the 2nd nap??

Is it time to change to 1 nap or is there some other issue??

I've been advised in my birth thread to put him down earlier for 2nd nap--since 30 min is not a restorative enough nap...but I'm a cue follower and don't really think that'll work...

Previously I'd let him sleep long in the am but it shortened the pm nap and then he was waking earlier...so that's why I began waking him....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Kristi

[debo620]

Hi there, I think you should continue with the 30min am nap at 9:30, he probably should be ready for a nap by 1pm-maybe til 2:30/3

[Mamalou]

the prob is he stays up happily for 5 hours--should I just try to get him to sleep anyway???

[Layla]

Hi Kristi, I would continue with the morning nap and I would also encourage to go by the clock as well.

I've stopped reading cues when my lo was about 6 months.... Isabella at 2+ yrs can still show a tired sign as early as 9am (rub eye or maybe yawn) but thats not to say she will fall asleep then. She has known to fall asleep as early as 11am but I know that it will then mean a really long afternoon and eventually she will get overtired (if I was to put her down for a nap at 11am daily). I would do the same time for morning and afternoon nap to set his internal clock. He might not look tired for 5hrs but that really is a long time to be awake for a 12mo. Isabella could only do that at 15/16months (which is when she finally transitioned to 1 nap). Some can do it comfortably but alot and if they do, eventually they get overtired and you get early wake ups or night wakings....

Jasmine (who will be 12months this sunday) is doing this:

6am - wake
9:15 - morning nap
10am - I wake her
1:30pm - afternoon nap (av 1.5hrs, sometimes a little less)
6-6.30pm - bedtime (about 3.75hrs/4hrs the most after pm nap ended)

Try that for about a week and see how you go.....

Layla

[Mamalou]

I'm not trying to 'tattle' on anyone or anything...just want to ask for advice on this...

I've posted about my LOs 2nd nap going too late...

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=92146.0

and a reply there AND in my birth thread suggests not following cues, but putting him down earlier for his 2nd nap...

What do you think?? 
I'm not sure it'll work (though I haven't tried yet) as I follow his cues and he's 'used' to it I think...or I am anyway...

Just wondering though...if I do this and just 'go by the clock' what will happen then...how will i ever know he needs to switch to 1 nap?? Or perhaps that will be when he starts refusing all together???

I'm just confused because I thought the whole idea was following cues...

but now wondering....

thanks
Kristi

[malialeanne]

You know it seems like something has gone funky somewhere. I wonder if maybe there is a misunderstanding on the term reading cues.  No one has ever said you deny all out tired scr eaming children, nor that you take a screaming happy kid and make them sleep.  Ignoring cues, more means like using some rationale to parenting and thinking "hmmmmmmmmm I wonder if that cue isnt totally real"? "I wonder if he is TIRED?".  It doesnt mean you dont watch cues, it means you experiment.  Parenting is a bout experimentation.  See what works for you and your baby or now toddler!

Stacy, I admire how you always speak your mind.

EXACTLY--you don't ignore cues, you just need to figure out which ones are real sleep cues. I might yawn in the middle of a meeting, and it doesn't mean I'm about to plunk my head on the table and go to sleep!

Questions about cues seem to appear as babies can be awake for longer periods. Throughout their awake periods they may display some behaviors that moms mistake as sleep cues, resulting in shorter naps, overtiredness, MORE tired behavior--it's all very confusing. The problem comes when you see a yawn or some fussiness halfway through their A time, think, OK, he must be ready for sleep, put him down and get a short nap or no nap, then he's overtired and impossible to read for the rest of the day.

Babies change day to day and so do their needs, and it's very tough to keep up. That's why some moms find it easier to aim for a time on the clock when they can be reasonably sure that their lo will be ready for sleep.

Agree with Stacy about the nap and A time in your situation.

Malia

[Mamalou]

Thanks for the advice--today I stayed home during that long A time-we go out everyday-perhaps that's why he's able to be up so long--he gets a bit of a 'rest' maybe riding in the stroller (but I do give him crawl/cruise time as well)
Anyhow wanted to try 1 but long story, MIL came just then so he went down at 2 and had to wake him at 4--so that's good! Yay! Not sure if tomorrow I should try for earlier...
we'll see..  I did try to watch very carefully his cues today...and he did have moments that could've been 'tired' that I've missed as 'frustrated' with playing, etc...before..

I think you give great advice, but TBH it always makes me feel like I'm just about the stupidest mom in the world.  I'm all for being straight forward--thank you, but your tone often seems harsh and offensive.. I don't want to start anything--
again, I think your advice is great and usually spot on...and I really respect you.  Maybe I'm just too sensitive.

Again, I wasn't try to 'tattle' on anyone in my birth thread..I was just asking for 'clarification' of what "don't watch cues" actually meant---from a 3rd party...
I have great respect for those girls and admire everone for their individuality.
sorry if I've offended

and thanks again for the EXCELLENT advice!

Kristi

[AJs Mom]

Hey Kristi,
Yah, everything we've been hearing everywhere had me wondering too.
I guess I've always thought, that I use AJ's cues to establish a routine, so I have a rough guidlen for the day.  I love being able to type up a 'schedule' for daycare, but she knows that she can stray. It's not there to watch the clock, it's so that someone else watching my baby knows what normally happens around those times.  The times came from me watching his cues.  His routines change over time because he's getting older and his needs change.  From 10-13 months, I couldn't type up a routine for daycare because AJ was changing his awake times about once a week.
-Finally, now, he's established.  He is tired for a nap at roughly 12:30 every day. 
-BTW, a month ago or so, when AJ was moving into the 2-1 switch, I knew, no matter what, and even still now, that if I put him to bed at 10:30am, even though he doesn't show any cues, he would go down for a morning nap.  However, the problem for me came at afternoon nap time.  He stopped taking them.  He wouldn't settle.  I tried again to see if he was ready for one and lo and behold it's great now.
-Anyhow, I guess my point/curiousity, was that I always felt that the cues were used to create the routine.  The rough plan/goal for the day. 
-I hope everything gets ironed out for Kubko's day.

Stacy, great advice.

Sonja C

[*Mona*]

-Anyhow, I guess my point/curiousity, was that I always felt that the cues were used to create the routine.  The rough plan/goal for the day. 

very true, at least that's what I believe as well.
a plan- not a schedule.
and Kristi- that's what you're doing isn't it.
and you're not a 'stupid mommy'- please don't think that of yourself.

Stacy- great to have people not hiding their thoughts hehe

M

[NiknLily]

Hi Kristi, have read this thread with interest, no advice at all, only to add that I too go by the clock now, I know that she can do 3hrs, 3.75 then 3.15 A times, Ok some days I know to get her in bed by 2hrs 50 in am some days it she can go to 3hrs 10 and likewise throughout the day, the only one that never gets longer is before bed.

I don't think your too sensitive, it can be hard with posts, emails even text messages, because you cant read the tone of voice, to get the correct 'feel' of what some one is saying, it can be misunderstood.

By the way your DS has the most beautiful big blue eyes, he'll brake some hearts 

[Mamalou]

no, ya, definitely...I started with cues then sure..it's usually around the same time daily...

and you know Sonja, that thing with the am nap...I've been thinking that awhile too...when Kubko had early wakings of 530 he'd still go down around the same time...and if I was feeling tired and just assumed he was because he woke early..I'd put him down (felt bad, but when knackered...) so have been thinking about that--he seems to LOVE his am nap...

thank you Mona...I know I'm sensitive.. I am not a stupid mommy
thank you
Kristi

[Mamalou]

newmum-thank you!

don't get me wrong--I do the same thing...in this case though the suggestion was to put him to bed a good 2 hrs earlier---which seemed really weird to me--as he really is happy for those 5 hrs...