Is there a suggest way to move to from 1 to 0 naps?

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Hi there,

My DD turns 3 tomorrow and our routine has started to get a bit messy and I know its to do with the switch from 1 nap to 0 naps however my DD probably is one of the more grumpy babies without sleep and I have always insisted on her getting enough sleep so she doesn't get so overwhelmed.

Now I know there's not an exact science to routines but we are swinging from too much to too little sleep and I need to have a more consistent routine for her and some clear boundaries.

Last night she got a good nights sleep and after a few days of long naps is all caught up and doesn't want to nap today (wi/wo and all that after an 1hour seems pointless when she is happy to be quiet). The thing is I know that without any nap she'll be tired tomorrow. If I put her down early tonight she'll just mess around until the her normal bedtime (around 8pm) and by tomorrow morning she'll wake up at 7am (normal time) and be overtired.

After looking at the FAQ and how much is enough sleep it would appear that a nice routine would be.

7am Wake
Nap 12.30 / 1pm for 1 1/4
Bed at 815pm

That's if I have read it correctly. Now has anyone used this as a guide and stuck to it by waking up there toddler or do you just throw it all out the window and not bother anymore with insisting on naps. My DD gets very overwhelmed when tired and takes 2/3 days to get happy again. If it was just DD and me I wouldn't worry but I have an 18 month old and towards the end of the day both can be demanding and it just isn't safe to leave DD with him as she is on a short fuse. When she's not overtired is pretty much fine.

I don't have any help and DH is working 6 days so it's important for all of us to be as happy as we can most of the time and not feeling tired, frustrated and overwhelmed.

Any views appreciated.

Regards

J

[Carmela's Mom]

Ok I'm a bit confused.  What does her routine look like?

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Well she always wakes at 7ish every morning occasionally earlier. We have one night wakings for a wee (we are not lifting at the moment)

That's the consistent bit.

5 or 6 days per week she naps at 1pm with her little brother and that can be for 2hours. Sometimes I don't get them down until later 2pm. When they sleep late bedtime gets pushed back. After a few days of long naps she will then skip one. I always return her and used to keep doing rapid return but after an 1hour now I give up - besides she is normally quiet in her room. To keep her napping I have to be very insisted so with just 1 missed nap she then thinks she has the choice to skip it the next day if she pleases so I spend the next few days re-setting boundaries. Of course if she's really tired she doesn't fight it but I hate it getting to that as the behaviour at that point is horrible.

Yesterday she didn't nap and she wasn't too bad. It's her birthday today so she's got loads of distractions. I will try and get her down for a nap today but she may feel that because after 1hour of not napping and destroying the plaster on her wall in her bedroom she has the upperhand to choose.

She did get a good sleep last night so doesn't seem that tired but I am sure after lunch will be exhausted with all the excitement.

In the day she's fine when she misses the nap but its the evening and the next day that are so horrible to be around. Basically until she gets caught up with the sleep again.

What are am trying to work out is if it is possible to keep the same routine 7 days per week and some consistency at this age so that the behaviour is also consistent.

By the way if DD is overtired from missing the nap she will wake up to 3/4 times per night. If my son is overtired he will cry after an hour we re-settle him and that's it for the next 11 or so hours etc. Obviously after that sort of night we are all cranky the next morning.

I am just curious to know how everyone else is handling this stage. I am sure by the time DS is 3 we will be skipping naps all over the place and just going with the flow but for now he still needs a good nap each day so figure I should try and at least get them both down at the same time.

The other thing is that I have joined a new playgroup and I am seeing a lot of kids this age not well rested and it does seem to show in the behaviour. My DD definitely shows more aggressive behaviour when completely shattered.

Any views.

Cheers

J

[Carmela's Mom]

I don't think she's ready to drop that nap just yet.  I am only talking from my daughter, but she doesn't nap anymore and I have to say though she's "on edge" a bit more around 5:00 pm, she really isn't what you are describing.  It sounds to me your daughter is just being willful.  That stinks.  I wouldn't force her to sleep but wouldn't give it up just yet either.  And make sure the days she doesn't nap she goes to bed no later than 7:00 pm. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will jump in.

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Today she took a nap as she was tired by 1030/11am but I still put her down after lunch. She had a good sleep and didn't seem that tired at bed time. We just kept returning her to bed. She didn't mess about but would just walk out of her room. We put her back about 3/4 times with no fuss and now she's finally gone. Last night she slept really well but I think the lack of nap yesterday caught up and then we over compensated for it at nap time. By not have the same routine each day I find it hard. Perhaps I need to watch the cues more.

Thanks for your response. Its all food for thought.

J

[sophiems]

I truly believe at this age you have to look at sleep on more of a weekly cycle than a daily one.  My son is 4, and I truly believe that he only needs a nap 6 out of 7 days. 

My rule for him is that he has to have quiet time, at least an hour in his room, on his bed.  If he doesn't sleep, that's ok, but he has to try and at least pretend.  On the days that he doesn't actually sleep, I just make sure he's in bed a tad earlier, then make sure he doesn't oversleep the next morning so he gets a good nap that next day. 

I think having quiet time is good for everyone, even if they aren't sleeping.  Wehn I start to see that he's sleeping on less days than not sleeping, I'll tell him that during his quiet time he can just look at books or something.  But for now, I just want him to rest and rejuvenate, and most often he will fall asleep if he needs it. 

I also have found that if it seems he hasn't had a lot of activity during a day that I won't try to offer him a nap until much later.  So if I think he's not really that tired, I'll let him stay up until about 3pm and give him quiet time then, even if it's only 45 min or so. 

[Carmela's Mom]

See if I put my daughter down for nap, she'd nap.  But then she'd be up until 10:00 pm!  And still wake at 6:30 in the morning   THat was our issue.  So now i let her watch TV and "rest".  It was going really well.  Today was a week.  The first day she took a catnap on the couch.  Then no naps until she fell asleep for 20 minutes in the car on Saturday.  Today she is cranky

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

I've kinda been doing the no nap once per week thing perhaps at the weekend when I really feel I need to get out of the house and I just go for it. I have even found that both kiddies haven't even gone to sleep in the car and the other day I put DS (18 months) down when I got back a 4pm for a nap whilst I cooked tea. That seems to work and I could still get him down at bedtime. I just don't get why I can mess about with DS till the cows come home yet DS I miss the window by 2 minutes and all hell breaks loose. I guess one is Angel / Text book and the other spirited / grumpy and textbook!!!!

Sophie - what do you do with your lo if he falls asleep around 3pm during quiet time or would you make sure he doesn't. Do you make a extra effort not to do too much the day after a missed nap.

To be honest I wish DD could miss her naps more because then we could spend some more time together without little bro. So far at missed naps we have just painted nails or she's gone off to read some books and doesn't run about at all. I hope I can find a pattern or way that suits her and stops the grumps for my sake.

Might go back to writing a diary.

Here's the last two days:

Woke at 730am
No nap and bed at 730pm

Woke at 715am
Napped from 115pm to around 315pm
Put down at 8ish.
Asleep around 915pm

I would guess tomorrow will look like this:
Wake 715am
Nap at 1pm (by the time I get back from garage)
Wake 3pm
Sleep 815pm

The later I get her down the longer she will sleep and the later to bed. I generally don't wake DD otherwise she's really cranky. It would be better for me to try and get her down earlier than wake her.

J

Thanks for the help

[sophiems]

If my lo falls asleep at 3pm, I'd only let him sleep a short bit, until 4 or maybe even before that.  At bedtime, in our house the same rules apply, when it's bedtime, it's bedtime.  even if he doesn't sleep then, he has to stay in his bed.  If he's truly having a hard time sleeping I'll let him look at books for a while but usually he's good about just staying put until he does fall asleep. 

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Ok thanks for that.

DD woke at 615 this morning and with DH off to work and noise in the house she didn't go back to sleep. Its 740 and the crank has started. I am going to go out and try to distract her and then go for a nap after lunch.

I can see this transition with my next one being completely different just because of temperaments and probably having more time to deal with the overtiredness because DD will be at school.

But have I have to do what's in the here and now.

All my daughters friends have given up napping and they seem to think I am a freak for insisting on naps. Seems that sometimes it is to do with how much time you have / or are will ing to spend.

J

[sophiems]

I think if you just establish that block of time that is 'quiet time' and it's virtually non-negotiable unless you both decide it's a special, out of the ordinary day, then it will just be habit.  After lunch, play for a bit, stories, then quiet time. 
Frankly I think that many parents stop naps WAY too soon because at that age the child is into other outside the home activities and it seems to make sense.  But I truly believe they still need their rest and down time until 5.  Maybe not 'sleep' but definitely down time.  Just my opinion though.   

[evanskimberley]

We are having a few no naps days and Holly is also waking up ealier as well at the moment. On th days she deosn't want to nap I reall don't force the isse, i just leave her in her bed. We are lucky that she won't get out once in there, she is happy to just lie and chat to herself.
We have a few story Cds and I put those onfor quiet time if I don't think she is tired and sometimes at bed time too.
How about doing that on the days she won't go to sleep early at night. Would that keep her in bed? It seems to work with Holly cos she is lying dow concentrating on something, it sends her off to sleep quicker than just lying there getting bored and frustrated.

On days when I think she won't nap but is a bit cranky I go somewhere with a long drive home and she has acatnap in the car - thats often enough to recharge her batteries. On the days where she has a huge nap I make sure we do something really energetic in the afternoon/evening to wear her out again!