Confused about PU/PD for nightwakings

[Luisasmum]

My formula fed (I weaned at five months hoping he'd sleep through!), eight month old DS has been nightwaking since day one. I have always fed him back to sleep but I need to stop now. At about seven months of age, his nightwakings went from three times a night to six or seven. I started working on getting his naps right about three weeks ago and he is back to waking only three times a night.

His day now looks like this (except for Monday, Thursday and Friday)

A between 5.30am and 6.30am
S 9.00am until 10.30am
S 1.00pm until 3 or 3.30pm
then asleep for the night at 6.30 or 7.00pm
(bath, bottle, teef, lights out, cuddle, cot)

He self settles quite often for naps and has been improving at bedtime but I still pat him most nights. I also have a 2.5 year old so some days his naps are a bit hit and miss, however even if he's had a couple of good nap days in a row, he still wakes three times a night. The times are erratic.

So last night I decided to go cold turkey on the night feeds. He went to bed at 7.00pm, woke at 11.30pm and again at 3.30pm. I gave him a paci and a few very light pats and he went back to sleep both times. He woke again at 5.30am but was not happy so after 20 mins of trying to re-settle, I gave him 100mls of formula and he went back to sleep with paci and light patting. He then woke for the day at 6.30am. I haven't used a paci for sleeping since he was 5 months (I do still use one when out and about).

Now my questions...

1. On Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays he only gets one good two hour nap due to DD's activities. Would those three days cause him to be overtired for the whole week or are his nightwakings now purely habitual despite their erratic nature?

2. I would like to try going without the paci this weekend when DH is home. Now, from what I have read on the nightwakings board, I think I should use PU/PD to do this but I am not too sure. I always thought it was a last resort. Should I just do PU/PD anyway or is patting still going to teach him to self settle in the night?

Thanks for reading my long post and I hope someone can help me!

Caroline.

[momofclaire]

Caroline,
Overtiredness can be cumulative.  So to answer your question, yes, if he gets only one nap three days a week he may be overtired and have trouble catching up. 
PU/PD should be a last resort.  I think in your case you should first work on getting ds on a better and more consistant routine.  If patting still works stick with it.  I think your nightwakings are probably due to overtiredness and the fact that he thinks he needs to eat overnight.
Have you taken a look at the sample easy routines? They might help you to see what to aim for.

[Luisasmum]

Thanks for replying. Just had a look at the EASY schedules and he looks pretty good for the larger part of his week but I don't know what I can do about those three bad days. I hope I don't have to stop taking DD to her activities. Oh well, school holidays start soon and we'll have nothing to do but concentrate on DSs naps for two weeks.

[momofclaire]

What time does he wake in the morning?
You want to aim for a 12 hour day/night routine, which means that if he is up at 6:30 he needs to go to bed at 6:30
At 8 months he needs between three and four hours of daytime sleep, ideally in two naps, although some babies are still taking a short evening cat nap.
How long have you been using the paci to try to resettle him?  Do you think it is becoming or has become a prop?
Is there any way he will nap in the stroller during dd's activities? 

[Luisasmum]

Well, he usually wakes between 5.30am and 6.30am. He's been falling asleep at night somewhere between 6.30pm and 7.00pm regardless of his morning wakeup time so maybe I'll give that a go, even if it means a 5.30pm bedtime for the time being. I used the paci for the first time on Tuesday night just to see if he would could go without his night feeds. Last night (wednesday night) he cut a tooth so he was up all night anyway and didn't want the paci. I ended up feeding him a couple of times last night as he wouldn't settle. I can get him to sleep when we are out by using a paci but he won't nap for long in the stroller when there is stuff going on around him. I think napping on the go is something I will have to try harder with if I don't want to spend the entire day yawning.

[momofclaire]

I would try an earlier bedtime. 
My Claire was never a good stroller napper. She wouldn't nap anywhere but her crib or pack n play, well, unless we were on the highway going 70 mph, if we got off, she was awake!     We just made sure we were close to home during naps, or traveling. It won't be like this forever. He will go to one nap before you know it.
Keep me posted. 

[Luisasmum]

...It won't be like this forever. He will go to one nap before you know it... 

This is what I keep telling myself!

I'll definitely keep you posted! Thanks for your help so far.

[Luisasmum]

I'm back. The night wakings are getting worse. He is waking every two hours now and will not go back to sleep unless I feed him. I had a go at dropping the night feeds on the weekend but his crying woke dd up every night, so I have gone back to feeding him. I am really struggling to get any sort of consistancy in his day.

This morning ds woke at 5.30am and went back down for a sleep at 7.30am as he was getting very cranky. Then dd woke up at 8.00am and woke ds up in the process so that was the end of his morning nap. So now it's 10.45am and I am trying to keep him up until 12.00pm but he is getting really toey. I am hoping he will sleep until 2.30pm which means he will have 3 hours awake time before I get him to sleep at 5.30pm. This is a fairly typical day now since I have been trying to fix these nightwakings. Some days he wakes at 5.00am, naps at 8.00am for an hour, naps again at 12.00 for 2.5 hours and goes to bed between 5.00pm and 5.30pm, but sometimes as late as 6.00pm. This is the best I can do as I have no help in the evenings and I am chief cook and bottle washer too. Am I doomed? Am I doing ok and I just have to be patient? I haven't had an uninterrupted nights sleep for 2.5 years and I'm exhausted.

[momofclaire]

I looks like your routine is ok from what I can gather. 
Can you use a white noise machine or fan in both their rooms to block out the others noise? 
I think feeding overnight has become a prop.  I am pretty sure he doesn't need it. Is he on solids consistantly now? 
Is he still having 3 days where he only naps once?

I think you probably should do pu/pd to end the night feeds.  Doing it means you have to be consistant.  Let me know what you think.
Myia

[Luisasmum]

I already have the fan going in the baby's room and it does help for most noises. Just been having trouble locating the air filter for dd. If I buy another small fan it will turn up.

Night feeds are definitely a prop but I think the last couple of nights he has actually needed them. The more he drinks at night, the less he drinks during the day and he's now having over 400mls per night and only about 250mls per day. It's out of control.

I started him on solids at six months but pureed food was a big failure. I just started baby-led feeding one week ago and he's now eating small amounts of breakfast, lunch and dinner. He is gradually increasing the quantities so hopefully when that gets going he might give me a break.

I'll will try doing PU/PD soon but I think I'm getting the flu again so it will have to wait. I just hope I can be consitant. I think PU/PD will be a lot more successful if I can get him drinking less at night though, so I'll start limiting tonight.

Thanks again for your help.

[momofclaire]

Try to encourage him to take more during the day and yes attempt to limit him at night.  Once you get your solid meals established you may find he takes less at night.
I wouldn't start pu/pd until you know you can be consistant, otherwise it will be a waste of time. Let me know what else I can do.

I hope you are feeling well soon.
Myia