4 wk old sleep help needed PLEASE!!!!

[kp#01]

Hi there,

I really need some help in the sleep department.  My dd is 4 weeks old and doesn't know what sleep is

The following was her schedule yesterday:

E 2:45 a.m. for 30 mins
A
S 3:45 a.m.

E 5:55 a.m. for 30 mins
A
S 6:30 a.m.

E 10:50 a.m. for 30 mins
A
S 11:30 a.m.

From 1:30 to 3:00 pm - all she did was eat and NO SLEEP!!!

E 4 pm for 20 min
A
S 4:30 pm

E 6pm for 20 min
A
S 6:30 pm

From 8:30 until 11 pm she did not sleep.


This morning, she was basically up from 4:30 a.m. until 6:30 just feeding. 

Does her sleep pattern seem normal?  I don't know who to incorporate the ACTIVITY because I'm not sure if it starts from the minute she wakes up or after she starts feeding.  For example, if it takes her 30 minutes to eat, do I add another 45 minutes for ACTIVITY time? 

I feel really helpless right now because we are getting virtually no sleep during the night.  Last night at 8:30, I fed her and she was dead tired, however, she kept fighting it and kept rooting for more milk which I gave her.  Then I gave in and put her in a swing and then she fell asleep. 

Any suggestions will be GREATLY appreciated!!!

Karen

[Sarahlolly]

Sorry Karen can't offer any advice just wanted to offer some {{{{{{hugs}}}}.  You must be shattered!!  I'm just hoping its because she is only 4 weeks and that a schedule should appear soon.  I only started EASY when my lo was 3 months old so can't offer anything productive.

I'm sure someone can offer some advice soon.

Love Sarah x

[Lolly]

We had an awful time with sleep at first and to be honest we did what we needed to to survive and get any sleep. He slept on us, we bounced him, we walked the floor, whatever it took. It does get better, we decided that we wanted to get to EASY and have worked bit by bit to get there. Not that we are really "there" but we keep trying.

You LO is still very small and will need to feed 2/3 times during the night. You activity time includes feeding so activity is really limited to nappy change and wind down for sleep again until she gets a bit bigger and able to handle longer awake. Are you breastfeeding, if so pop onto the breastfeeding boards to see if they have any help for feeds - we bottle fed, so not much use to you. Are you sure she is feeding for all that long time or is she comfort suckling? She is still building your supply too so feeding frequently will help you.

Are you swaddling for sleep? That really helped my LO in the early days and we even went back to it for a time during a rough patch. Establishing a wind down routine will also help her to settle and know it is sleep time. During the night we always had as little interaction as possible. We kept the lights low and only changed his nappy if it was really soggy or dirty. So activity was non existant and back to sleep as soon as possible.

HTH!

Laura

[krisha]

Hi there,
Can sympathise as I have a 6 weeker (born 5 weeks early so somewhere between 1 & 6 weeks!) and sleep is a problem. We are swaddling him but there are periods during the day, especially morning (7-12) and evening (5-9) when he is very difficult to get off to sleep. He just seems to want to feed, fall asleep on the breast and feed again. Have tried pick up, put down method, putting down whilst awake (tricky as he always falls asleep whilst eating) and his activity is just a diaper change and in the evenings a bath.
Hope things improve for you, I think maybe they are still too young to have an established routine but EASY will help eventually.

[EllenS]

As pp said, A time includes feed time AND wind-down time so for a newborn, you would be aiming for 45 mins or at most an hour from wakeup to sleep. 

DONT BEAT YOURSELF UP IF YOUR BABY dOESN"T FOLLOW THE "PLAN".  You can control some things, like making a conducive environment and offering opportuniites to sleep, but you can't control how quickly your baby learns to fall asleep, etc.

I would also think that suckling for 45 mins or more is a soothing behaviour rather than eating - do you know how to tell if she's swallowing?  She could also be in a dream state sucking automatically.

If I'm reading your chart right, it looks like she's getting lots of sleeps that are 1.5 - 2 hours, and a couple that are 4-5 hours - did she sleep from 11pm to 4:30 am? 

That's actually quite good for a 4 week old.

Hang in there, this is the hardest part, things will be all over the map for a few more weeks and then smooth out for a while.  You're doing great!

Oh, and krisha, you're quite right that the structure really doesn't kick in till later but you are getting them used to the idea.  Pickup Putdown is NOT recommended for a baby so young - it's for babies over 4 months.  For a tiny one like yours, the recommended technique is shush/pat.  And for some babies so young, it's almost impossible for them to stay awake on the breast because of the oxytocin in the milk - they are drugged!  Don't worry about it, just "fake it till you make it".

[kp#01]

Hi Ellen,

Thank you for your response.  her sleep is much better but she usually falls asleep on my while nursing or in the swing (we were desperate!!!).

Should I be doing the pat/shh technique?  How about if she doesn't fall asleep at all until the next feed?  I can totally anticipate this happening with her.  Last night she took 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep.  Finally she just pacified herself on me and fell asleep. Before then she was bobbing on and off of me and I knew she was dead tired but couldn't fall asleep.   

By the way, she slept from 10 pm until 3 a.m.!!! Very happy about that and hopefully it stays!

Thanks again,

Karen

[EllenS]

How's everything going? 

[kp#01]

Hi Ellen,

My dd is 6 weeks old today and her sleeping has improved.  She eats around the following times:

9 a.m.
12 p.m.
3 p.m.
6 p.m.
8 - 9 p.m. (last feed before she goes to bed)

10 p.m. she's sleeping and wakes up again between 2 and 3 a.m.  Back up at 6 a.m.

She is sleeping about 1 1/2 to 2 hours per nap.

The only problem I am facing is HOW I put her down.  The patting and shhhhing doesn't work.   She likes the swing and exhausted I am at times with her and my ds, I give in!

I have tried patting/shhhing her for over an hour and she is wide awake yawning like crazy and the 7 mile gaze but as soon as I put her in her swing, she falls asleep.

Is it a bit too early perhaps to do the patting you think?

I appreciate you following up!  Thank you.

Karen

[Lolly]

When you put her down is she fussing? Patting can be too stimulating for some babies, so you may need to experiment to see what works for you! Maybe just holding your hand on her back or chest and shhing will work better. The goal is to put them down awake and only intervene with the patt/shh if they are crying/upset. Maybe just hold her still in your arms until she is drowsy and then lay her down, gradually doing it sooner and sooner.

We did use the swing for naps and he slept in his bouncy chair for naps and night sleep for weeks before we had anything for the reflux, the vibrate setting worked wonders - cost us a fortune in batteries though! I think before 3/4 months habits don't become set so it's easy to undo any accidental parenting. Despite all the things we did in the early weeks/ months he now goes to sleep for all naps as soon as we put him down and he self soothes when he wakes at night so don't worry about doing what you need to get rest yourself at this age. I think it's easier to deal with stopping props for naps with a generally rested child who is sleeping than an overtired one.

HTH!

Laura

[EllenS]

I agree with Lolly - at this stage, do what you have to do.  But remember, do the minimum you need to - if he is quiet, staring, yawning, let him be - the patting may actually be keeping him awake.  Pat/shhh is a soothing technique that should help the baby relax enough to put himself to sleep.  If he's already relaxed and falling asleep, back off and let him!

If he's crying, try some variations, like just resting your hand on him, etc. to find out what he likes (my lo prefers this constant contact to patting).  I certainly would not try for a whole hour at this age, maybe 20-30 minutes, and then do whatever works.  That is enough opportunity to let him start trying to self-soothe, but he may not be developmentally ready, and that's okay.

For additional encouragement, we did not start BW till my lo was about 12 weeks, and last week at 5+ months she has weaned herself from the swaddle and I can just do our ritual, put her down and walk away. (As long as I respect her tired signals and don't push her past the window).  You can try a little now and phase the system in as he gets older.

[kp#01]

Wow, thank you so much Laura and Ellen.  You have made me feel much more comfortable.  I see her signs in the evening and i do catch them on time, however, it was just taking us way too long to put her to sleep.  For now, i will try for about 20 minutes of what calms her and if she doesn't fall asleep or starts crying, I'll try the swing.

Thanks again ladies.

I will keep you posted!

Karen