At wits' end!

[marensmama]

My angel/textbook 2yo dd has never had trouble with going down for night sleeps or naps, or at least nothing that was a long term issue (teething, illness, the usual bumps on the road).  However, for the last week or so she has been having a complete fit at bedtime and takes over an hour to calm her down and put her to sleep.  For the last month she has been not falling asleep immediately, and just talking in her crib until she fell asleep, sometimes for up to an hour.  I moved her bedtime 1/2 hr later and cut her naps to 2 hrs and she'd still lay in her crib talking for 1/2 hr.  As long as she was happy, I was happy and naptimes have remained a non-issue.  Her routine used to look like this:
6:30 or so wake
1:00-3:00 nap
7:00 bedtime
sigh, life was good.... I've never had to do any sleep training with her as she's been a great sleeper since 12 weeks of age, so I don't know how to do wi/wo or anything like that.  She's always just been put to bed awake and fallen asleep on her own.

Now her routine looks like this and it has been like this for the last week:
5:00 am wakes up crying, falls asleep in our bed until 6:00
1:00-3:00 nap
7:30 bedtime, have a fit, scream cry, turn blue, beg for more songs, beg for anything, scream some more about not wanting to go to sleep, cry for Mommy, cry for Daddy.
8:30 or 9:00 finally calm down and fall asleep.

I believe she is overtired from the later bedtime, and hence the early wakings.  I work full-time and am 27 weeks pregnant with lo#2, and can't get up at 5:00, so there may be some AP there.  I'm willing to fix that, but I just feel totally frustrated about the late nights (7:00-9:00 pm is my time to make lunches, get clothes ready, tidy up, shower, and then finally put my feet up, so when she won't go down easily I'm tired and have to push my chores back and I'm up later and not happy about my sleeping situation, not happy about getting up at 5:00).

Our bedtime routine is the same as always, we have quiet time with books or a bath with a Franklin movie while we dry her off.  Then after teeth brushing we pick out a teddy bear, sing some quiet songs and then lay her down in her crib with lots of hugs and kisses.   Then I'd leave the room and she'd talk to herself for a few minutes and go to sleep.  She seems ready to go down lately, but as soon as I start to walk out of the room she stands up and begs for another song or something and when I say no she freaks out and the whole thing starts.  I won't leave her to cry it out, she's genuinely upset, but if I don't leave her then I'm giving in to the tantrum and teaching her that's how to get what she wants.  I tell her that's not how we ask for what we want (so she screams PLEASE!) and tell her she must calm down, but I'm upset on the inside because I know it's 'here we go again' and I don't know what I'm doing and I'm going to turn her into a spoiled child or scar her by letting her cry it out.   

She is getting her 2nd 2 year molar and of all the times she's had her routine upset, teething always seems to disrupt her sleep.  I've tried giving her ibuprofen 1/2 hr before bed to see if that helps, but it doesn't and now she's added 'medicine' to the list of things she's freaking out for.  She is a thumbsucker and I have noticed that she isn't sucking her thumb as much this last week (possibly because her mouth is sore?).  Otherwise she has no props or issues and nap-time remains easy.  We use the same wind-down routine for nap-time as bedtime.  She would sleep longer for her naps if I'd let her, but I thought that was messing up her night sleep.

Any help here would be great.  I'm so crabby and tired and can't take much more!  Thanks so much for any help you can offer!

[Layla]

Hi there,

I do believe she is very overtired. If she is up for the day at 5am, you really need to give her a nap at 11.30 (12pm the latest). She's not going to bed until 8.30-9pm becuase she is overtired from being awake so long in the morning as well as her nap ending at 3pm. So do nap at 11.30-12pm & bedtime around 6.30-7pm. Give her about a week to catch up on some sleep & you might be surprised... she might even sleep in longer in the morning. Then once she's caught up on sleep you can push her back to 12.30nap. If she used to wake at 6.30am, 12.30pm shoudl be the latest she goes to sleep.

Don't let her sleep longer than 2hrs for her nap - that can have an effect on night sleep.

Let me know how you go

[J & J's Mum]

Hi,

I have so much sympathy for you. It's awful when their sleep routine all of a sudden changes.  Our DS has is just cutting his last molar and has been very strange lately!!  It must be horrible for them though!!  I hope your routine goes back to normal soon.

xx

[marensmama]

Hi and thanks for the advice.  I tried putting her down earlier for her nap today (by 12:00) because she was up at 5 again, and she only slept for 1 1/2 hrs.    I'm sure she'll be tired once 6:30 rolls around, and I'm hoping she goes down well.  The only trouble is that she's at daycare 4 days a week and I don't know that they can get her down early because that would mean moving the other girls' lunch and nap times up too.  I'm hoping to leave work soon for mat leave and then it'll all be up to our schedule.  In the meantime, I'll do the best I can.  Any advice though  on how to handle the fits?

Thanks again!

[J & J's Mum]

My ds is almost 28months and when he sleeps longer than 1.5 hours in the afternoon, he either won't go to bed at 7.30 or will wake up at 6.30ish.   

I'm sure she'll settle soon. \\\\\\ Iknow it seems it won't get better, but it will

xx

[Layla]

1.5hrs is a good nap. Isabella pretty much from the age of 2 took 1.5hr naps or else her nights were getting shorter. I hope she settles faster tonight & sleeps better overall.

About fits - well at the moment they are largely due to her being overtired. I found a similar post if you want to have a read https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=93624.0

Here's the link to sleep training methods for toddlers - because she was such a wonderful sleeper, I woudl recommend the wi/wo method for nightwakings. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

Keep me posted
Layla

[marensmama]

OK, now I'm really ready to lose it!!!!!   I have been trying to get her to sleep for an hour now.  Good thing I started early!  She has a fit the moment I leave the room, and I don't want to stay in her room and undo everything we've accomplished up to this point by AP-ing my way into more problems.  Then my well-meaning husband steps in because I'm truly getting so ticked off and just mystified by this behaviour, and takes her out of her crib, which is something I've been trying not to do, and he's with her right now.  Not that I think I'm right here, I'm just trying to be consistent to avoid falling into the trap of rocking a 30 lb 2yo to bed!  Besides, I can barely lift her these days with my 6 1/2 month baby bump in the way!  And I don't want her to start thinking that she can call for Daddy to rescue her from the evil bedtime Mommy!

I honestly don't know what to do, we tried an earlier nap, it was shorter than normal and she has been a bear since she woke up this morning and after her nap.  What am I doing having another baby when I am completely thrown for a loop by this one?!  My husband says I'm being too hard on myself, but I am at wits end dealing with a cranky overtired toddler who will not sleep.  I love my little girl to bits and am so used to her being an easygoing cutie-pie, I'm at the end of my rope with her whining and tantrums lately.  I feel terrible for even writing that, feel terrible for losing my patience with her, but I just don't know how to deal with this behaviour.  I understand she's overtired, so I am trying to give her opportunity to sleep more but she is fighting me every step of the way.  To give you an example of how ridiculous this is, she decided she didn't like part of the metal bracket on her crib and wanted me to take it off.  It's as though I've always given in to every demand and the demands keep getting more and more.  I have occasionally given in to one more song or  one more snuggle, but otherwise I've tried not to cater to her every whim because I was afraid of this becoming a problem.  I gave in to the occasional little thing because I didn't want her to get upset right before bed and what time did it take to sing literally just one more song or give one more snuggle.  Now I see where we're at and wonder if I've caused this, and if I really have to be a complete battleaxe with the routine (I'm already a stickler for routine, I'd have to be extremely rigid if I was to go any further!)

One thing I didn't mention was that we were away camping last weekend and she wouldn't fall asleep in the trailer by herself (never has, we've always had to go home from camping at night, so we thought we'd give it a try).  I laid with her until she fell asleep and it was late (like 10:00) by the time she stopped waking up every time I tried to get up.  I have never done that before.  The next night we were at home and she wanted to be in Mommy's bed again, threw a bit of a fit over it, and now that I think on it the fits have been constant every night since then.  So, even though I think she was overtired before this from a month of not falling asleep quickly like she used to (I'm blaming our lighter nights for that), did I totally cause this and will I ever get my little sweetie back again?  How do I get her to sleep for a few good nights and fall back into our good routine without me or my spouse doing something stupid to cause other problems?

BTW, one night I took her out of her room in the middle of her fit (which stopped it in its tracks) and I just held her on the couch for literally less than ten minutes, telling her it wasn't play time, it was bed time, and we needed to calm ourselves before we tried to go to bed again, and she went back into her crib without much fuss.  Is this some sort of bad habit to get into or was it just luck that she went down right after that?  I worry that if I try it again and she doesn't go to sleep that she'll figure it's a game and want out of her room entirely and then we've got that new problem to deal with.

I'm sorry, you can see I'm in quite a state over this.  I am truly appreciative for the support of you ladies who have gone through similar things before.  I feel so isolated in this situation, any help I can get from this wonderful community is really a blessing.

[Layla]

Take a deep breath & relax!!!

Its very easy for them to get overtired & a few late nights here & there & next thing you know she's fighting her naps & nights.

The important thing here is how you respond to her. Are you at all familiar with sleep training methods for toddlers? I would recommend the wi/wo method. So do your windown routine (make sure you have enough books & songs) & leave. Do the wi/wo. Don't pick her up or rock her, no taking out of the room & into mummy's bed or the lounge - all of that is too stimulating. No "talking" about how its night time & no more getting angry about it. She can most certainly feel your anxiety & its no good for you or her.

Heres the link - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

I would stick to 1 method, do earlier nap & bedtime & she should go back to sleeping well again

[marensmama]

Hi again, and thanks for your reply.  I have some questions about wi/wo, because when I've tried to lay her down in a fit before she immediately stands up again.  She is at that point completely red in the face, shrieking, and vibrating, and jumping up and down.  Do I leave her like that?  The times I have left the room and come back (mostly to calm myself) seem to have antagonized her, and I just can't visualize her calming herself down that way.  Will she scream for hours and then just give up?  If so, I'm going to have to have nerves of steel and start trying to get her down at 6:00.  I'm reluctant to try it if it's going to be a huge ordeal, although I understand that every night for the last week has been an ordeal anyways, so what's the difference?  I do want this to change, so I'm willing to do whatever, I just know that I have to commit to a method and what happens if this ends up being horrible?

The nights my husband has put her to bed without me she has gone down rather well, and over the last week it has been with his calming influence (after I've failed to get her down) that she's gone to sleep.  Should we just try having him put her down for a few nights and see if that works?  Maybe she knows what buttons of mine to push and is asserting her in that way?

I think what's most distressing for me is that I feel like I am letting her down because I can't solve what's bothering her, and I feel like I am letting myself down by allowing frustration and anxiety to take over.  I try not to let her see it, and I never express it in front of her, but I'm sure she senses it.  My own mother is not a maternal person whatsoever, and I know that I would have been made to cry it out at a very young age.  I try to be as understanding as possible and hate when I can't get things sorted out for Maren, and I hate feeling frustrated by my darling little girl.

Thanks for the support, and for the suggestions.  I'd like input as to whether you think she'd benefit from having Daddy put her down, or if I should just dive in to wi/wo.  And what do I do if I can't lay her down and there is no break in her screaming to leave the room?

[Layla]

If she's going down easier for your Dh then maybe he could do the wi/wo to start with & once she is better rested, you can take turns. She will scream/cry but she will get tired & eventually fall asleep. Yes,m you do have to have nerves of steel. But it might not be such a huge ordeal. She might have a really good cry for about 15mins but then will settle down & go to sleep. '

I'd like input as to whether you think she'd benefit from having Daddy put her down, or if I should just dive in to wi/wo.  And what do I do if I can't lay her down and there is no break in her screaming to leave the room?

Some babies settle faster for daddy than mummy & for sure, if DH can help out, get him involved. Make sure that Dh does the same thing as you will. Don't take it personally. She's not chosing daddy over mummy.

You don't have to lay her down everytime you go in. You walk in & reassure her that you still love her, its night time & she needs to sleep. "its ok, mummy's here... go to sleep" & leave to start the count. She can get down on her own.

Hang in there - you'll get through this!!! Have a look at the sticky on top of the page - support for those who have done wi/wo.

Let me know how tonight goes

[marensmama]

OK, well what a difference a day makes!  Maren was up at 6:15 this morning which was a much better start than the 5 am wakes of last week.  I asked her daycare provider to put her down for her nap early if at all possible, and she managed to get her down 20 minutes earlier than usual (not a lot earlier, but it was the best she could do).  She slept for two hours, had no tantrums at daycare and was a doll all evening at home.  When it was bedtime we offered to have daddy put her in her crib and she got upset, so we decided I'd give it another go.  We did our song wind-down routine and then DH left the room as is usual for us to have a few minutes snuggle and one last song.  She was quite concerned that we would be 'right back' and I told her if she fell asleep, Mommy and Daddy would each come in and check on her to make sure she was covered up by her blankets, but that she'd have to be asleep for that.  She seemed very satisfied that we weren't leaving her for the evening, and didn't fuss when I put her down.  I left the room and a few minutes later she gave a weak request for one of us to come in and make Tinkerbell fly (it's an ornament that hangs by her mural), which I pretended not to hear and I haven't heard from her since.

I know one night is not a guarantee that she's over this bit, but wow, do I ever feel better!  I thought about the situation all day and reminded myself that I need to respect her as an individual who needs to be nurtured in her own unique way, and that when I let my frustration and anxiety take over (even though I try not to show it to her), I'm not giving her that respect.  I approached the bedtime routine with extra patience in hand, and although I didn't need it, she may have sensed it.  I also wonder if some of this has been about separation anxiety, since she didn't really want me to leave her at daycare today and she has been a bit clingy lately.  Whatever caused it, it was certainly a reminder of how important routines are to our little ones!

I'll post again if our problem resurfaces tomorrow, but I do feel confident that we've taken a giant step ahead.  I'll continue  with the earlier naps and hopefully we have the bedtime tantrums beat!

Thanks again for all your help, and for listening to me whine about this.  In retrospect it seems so minor, but when you're in the middle of it it seems like it's all-consuming.  I love the support I get from the BW community, it's so wonderful to be surrounded by people who love their lo's as much as I love mine!

[Layla]

Wow - thats great to hear!!! I am so pleased you are feeling better about the whole situation & I hope it continues. If her wake up time is around 6.30ish, I wouldn't do a nap any later than 12.30pm & bedtime around 7 (to be asleep by 7.30pm).

Keep us posted
 

[marensmama]

Night # 2, not a peep after our wind-down, and she slept until 6:15 again this morning!   She asked again if we'd check on her after she was asleep, so I think that definitely helped.  Poor babe, probably thought we put her to bed and didn't think about her until morning!  Little does she know I miss her as soon as she's asleep!

Anyway, she seems to be back on track, so thank you thank you!