20 week old with 1 month of Nightwakings!

[shoemom]

Hi, I've posted this in the EASY forum but not one mod replied, and I figured we needed to tweak our routine somewhere, but NW's are our main problem. Hopefully one of you nice moms can offer me some advice this time; you have all been so helpful before!!  Here is the link to my other post https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=97206.0 

My 5 month old DS has already gone thru his 4 month GS, teething, and milestone (rolling onto side) and now his naps are perfect (or so I thought). He is swaddled to sleep and nap, but a few days ago I ended up putting him to nap unswaddled (he was a bit OT'd and he fell asleep unswaddled with shh, and a lovey). He slept for 2 hours, so I thought maybe the lovey was helping and let's see how the rest of the day would go without the swaddle. It went wonderfully! The pm nap was an hour and a half and catnap 1 hour. He went to bed for the night beautifully and even slept 12 hours with no wakings! (a first!) So we tried the same the next day thinking he no longer needed the swaddle. Boy was I wrong! His am nap was 45 mins, and even though I put him down earlier for his next nap (A time was 1.5 hours-usually is 1 hour 50 mins) he woke in 30 mins (obviously OT'd). From here the goal was to get in 2 more short naps, but he would have none of it. I finally got in an hour nap from 3:45-4:45 and he went to bed okay at 7:30. One waking at 2 am (he ate 6 oz) and it took 30 mins of shh to get him back to sleep w/out swaddle.

The 3rd day I decided to swaddle again so at least he'd get good naps, and he did! Here was our routine:

woke 6:45 (playing in crib)
E 7:15 (7 oz, but not really hungry)
S 8:40-10:40 (swaddled, I woke him)
E 11:15 (6 oz)
S 12:45-2:30 (swaddled)
E 15:00 (8oz)
S 16:40-17:15 (he woke up crying, he usually does 45 mins to an hour here)
E 18:00 (6oz)
bath,bedtime routine
E 19:15 (top-up 6oz)
Bed (tried from 19:30-21:00)unswaddled and finally gave baby motrin (bad mommy )
woke 1:10 am (fed 5 oz and swaddled)
woke 5:30 (took 20 min of shh)
woke 6:50

I'm sure theres something wrong with our routine (even though it changes daily based on his nightwakings and naps). I find now that if he's not swaddled, I can't soothe/shh him to sleep, whereas when swaddled he falls asleep almost instantly (at least for his naps). I still don't know who possessed my little guy the day and night he slept so well, maybe he was just so tired from weeks of crappy nights 

Any input/advice?

Thanks, Jessica


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[Layla]

Hey Jessica

He could probably do a little more A time so I would aim for something like this:

6.30ish - awake
9am - morning nap
10.30am - wakes from nap (dont let him have a 2hr nap to protect the 2nd nap)
1pm - pm nap
2.30 - wakes from nap
5pm - catnap
5:45 - wakes from nap
7-7.30 - bedtime

Is swaddling something you want to wean? You could try the Aussie swaddle, with 1 arm out... that might be smoother than stopping it altogether.

If there is a case again of short pm nap & you have to bump up the catnap, also bump up bedtime. 2.5hrs is probably too long (the A time in between catnap & bedtime is usually shorter).

What is he like when he wakes at night? Crying or just fussing

Layla

[shoemom]

Hi Layla,

So you're saying he should be able to do 2.5 hours A time now? Should I try to lengthen it 5 or 10 mins a day? Sometimes he seems so tired if he's up a bit too long, and then we get 30 min naps which throws the whole day off. I agree that the afternoon A time was too long; his grandparents were visiting earlier and it slowed our bedtime routine down. What length A time would you suggest before bedtime? 1.5 or 2 hours? Do you also think his naps are too long, and so both should be 1.5 hours plus catnap?

When he wakes in the night he starts;  fussing, and I don't go in to him until he starts to cry (I wait a few secs to make sure it's a real cry); the odd time I've heard him put himself back to sleep, but mostly I end up shhing him back to sleep (unless its been long enough to need a feed). He's only gone the 1 night without a feed; he usually eats once for sure, the odd time twice, but unfortunately now he takes longer to fall back asleep after feeding (30 mins to an hour and a half!).

As for the swaddle, I've been wanting to wean for quite some time because he's so big (18.5 lbs) and has been breaking out since 2 months old. 2 months ago I got the miracle blanket (which he's outgrown and it's not helping him now), and now I swaddle him with 2 blankets (1 folded in a triangle on the inside to keep his arms still, and a large one on the outside). I tried the aussie swaddle once (he was out in 5 mins) and tried keeping 1 arm out, but that was a while ago so I'll give it a try again. The only reason we went cold turkey was that he slept so well the one day (naps and night), I thought he didn't need it anymore, but obviously I was wrong! My parents and in-laws think I'll be swaddling him till he's a toddler!!!

Thanks for your advice Layla; I'll start trying to extend A times tomorrow. Wish me luck!


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[Layla]

Jessica, I am so sorry love... I thought he was 6 months for some reason . 2.5hrs is too long of a stretch. I don't think there is anything wrong with the routine at all. Just that bedtime might be a little too late (probably don't want to have any more than 2hrs A time so try to have him in the cot by 2hrs)

I wouldn't let 2-2hr naps. Try to limit them to 1hr45mins to start with.

My parents and in-laws think I'll be swaddling him till he's a toddler!!!

Lol, I would try the 1 arm out again & then you can take both arms out & finally not swaddle. I was always terribel with swaddling.... neither of them liked it & they would always break free (but then again I probably didn't swaddle the right way). So we suffered quiet a bit without the swaddle. She used to wack herself all the time & wake herself up (Jasmine). Isabella surprisingly got used to her little hands from the start.

If you are going to add A time its usually 5-10mins at a time but I don't think this is a routine issue so much.

So after the feed, is he still crying when you put him back? Is that what you mean by taking longer?

[shoemom]

Hi Layla, I was wondering about the 2.5 hour A time too!!! I will definately shorten his naps a bit like you suggested though; I've found that the last 2 days he's still sleeping at 2 hours and I have to wake him, whereas before he'd wake himself at 2 hours or 1.5 hours.

Last night I fed him at 1:00am (last feed was 6:30 pm) and afterwards he was quiet for about 5 mins, but then started crying, and when I went in and tried to shh him, he started crying more as if in pain or upset (snuffling). This went on for 45 mins (I picked him up a couple times to calm him and he let out a big burp), so my DH wanted to give him gripe water. We did and then he fell asleep within minutes! He seemed fine/happy when he first woke at 1:00, while eating, and when I changed his diaper. He also woke around 4:00 but put himself back to sleep and then woke up for the day at 6:50 am. He used to fall asleep right after a feed no problem, and the odd time he still does, but more and more he's crying alot when I try to put him down. Are you wondering if it's reflux? He was a really gassy newborn and we questioned his Dr. about reflux, but he just said to feed him smaller amounts more frequently, and he's seems to be fine since (but does still bring up a bit and sometimes over an hour after he's fed ) I've also wondered about SA (I know he's a bit young for that, but he seems to be doing a lot of things earlier than the norm, and he has shown it before when I left him with my mom and MIL for a few minutes, though he normally adores them!). What do you think?

Oh, one more thing-I've read on the site here that night sleep gets sorted out from 0-3 months, and naps sort out from 3-6 months. I understand the napping, but how does night sleep sort out? and is it too late for my LO

Thanks again, and BTW I really love your girls names (if we had a girl she would have been Jasmine)

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[Layla]

Reflux? I am not that familiar with reflux & not sure if it would now bother him whereas before he slept through without a problem. Its not uncommon for babies to be gassy (esp newborns) with all that crying & feeding & immature digestive system & i don't think its uncommon for them to spit a little bit of food out. Have a look at the reflux board though - I "thought" Jasmine had silent reflux when she was tiny but the doc told me that she would then be uncomfortable in a lying down position ALL the time, rather than just sometimes. I didn't really look into it further as the crying sorted itself out.

SA - usually starts developing when they are a little older & gain a little more independance.

Oh, one more thing-I've read on the site here that night sleep gets sorted out from 0-3 months, and naps sort out from 3-6 months. I understand the napping, but how does night sleep sort out? and is it too late for my LO

LOL - its never too late!!! Basically what happens is that newborns have very little melatonin (a hormone that helps control the "internal clock" - circardian rhythm). They only start producing it around 6 weeks, where mums get to see longer stretches at night & there is no more day/night confusion. So thats what they mean by night sleep sorting itself out. But thats not to say that if you haven't taught him to sleep through at 3 months he never will. He's still a very young bub & some bubs don't start sleeping through until they are older (with me for example it occured at 8-9 months). I know Tracy said that babies "should" be able to do all night at 4 months but you have to remember that not all babies are the same & the reality is that alot of babies don't sleep through at 4 months. Be patient, you'll get there!!!

Lets work on slightly shorter naps & see if that gets us somewhere

Thanks again, and BTW I really love your girls names (if we had a girl she would have been Jasmine)

Thanks! It took us forever to choose "Isabella". Finally when I was like 9months pregnant, we went to watch "Kill Bill" & the name Isabelle came up on the credits, so we fell in love with that name & slightly changed the ending. "Jasmine" was actually supposed to have been "Mya" but my MIL had a "problem" with that name (she's Salvadorian & thought the name Mya was too close to the "Mayan civilization" - stupid reason really  ) so we chose Jasmine because I love the cartoon Aladdin, lol. Anyways probably more than what you wanted to know but yeah.... 


Keep me posted

[shoemom]

Hey Layla,

It's been a couple of rough days (and nights!) and after going to the dr's today, my DS has a bit of a throat infection Since a few days ago he's been having crappy naps (basically refusing to nap about 1 nap a day) even though everything seems right. I've shortened his naps to 1 hour 45 mins but the odd nap he's waking at 45 mins again and I'm unable to extend his naps now. Also at night when he wakes, usually 1 of the wakings he takes a long time to go back to sleep (last night woke at midnight for feed and couldn't get him to sleep until almost 2:00; lots of crying), but if he has another waking he goes back to sleep  no problem. I've also heard him wake the odd time and put himself back to sleep. Confusing!!! It seems that he is immune to sshh now and the only thing that works is rubbing his back or shoulder. May be related to his cold, but I'm persisting in trying to get his naps in (even if it means a lot of long walks with the snugli; at least the dog is happy and making sure he's not OT at bedtime.  Should I just ride this out for now and do whatever it takes to get him back to sleep or try PU/PD (right now I pick him up to soothe him when shh doesn't work and I rub his back, but my DH will do this until he falls asleep on his shoulder and I don't want to start a bad habit).

Thanks, Jessica 


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[shoemom]

Just an update from last night; everything seemed to be going really well (to bed at 7:00, woke 45 mins later but right back to sleep w/in 5 mins, and didn't wake again until 2:00 . I fed him then and he seemed to go right back to sleep, but 20 mins later started to mantra cry/cough-cough cry followed by a pause. I let him do this for 30 mins (he didn't cry like he needed me and I was hoping he'd eventually go back to sleep), but DH who had just come home from work thought he'd HELP out  (I know he means well), and then DS started to really cry and then scream. I let him deal with it for 10 mins but couldn't take it anymore, and I took over. He went back to sleep by 3:40 with light humming and rubbing his shoulder (shh seems to disturb him now!), and woke again 45 mins later (I got him right back again). I know I shouldn't be doing true PU/PD (especially if he's sick), but we do pick him up when his crying escalates, and try to calm him in our arms for a few mins, then put him back down. Just wanted to double check this is okay (I seem to remember reading this in Tracy's book). Also do you think his crying (cough-cough cry, then mantra cry, followed by a pause) is okay to leave him alone or should I go in like my DH did?

[Layla]

Jessica, I think its ok to leave him if he's doing the mantra cry, pause, caugh like, etc... You dh probably disturbed him more by his presence but that ok, he meant well.

Sounds like an improvement!

[shoemom]

You're right Layla; last night was ideal! Adam had an early bedtime (6:30) due to a 45 min nap, then slept 8 hours (had a feed) and went right back to sleep until 6:30 this am! Thanks for all your helpful advice and support!!!


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[Layla]

That sounds like a great night!!! Well done for leaving him alone... hope this lasts