Author Topic: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?  (Read 1823 times)

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Offline Bryony

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Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« on: July 27, 2007, 17:56:34 pm »
I suspect there isn't an easy answer to this, but usually somewhere out there has a better idea so I am posting just in case!

My LO is a chronic 45 minute napper - has been since she was 7 weeks old  ::) ::)   We've had phases of longer naps, but mainly short naps. I was able to extend them with 20mins of pat/ssh until she was 5mo old, now I can rarely extend them in the cot and we usually end up going out in the buggy for her to get the second 45 mins.... 

My feeling is that Katie is very sensitive to A time - too long or too short = 45 minute naps.

Anyway we had a week or two of longer naps, and now are back into the short ones again and I am wondering if anyone can shed any light on whether her current A time is too long or too short.

She is now 6 mo, so the "average" A times are 2hr 15 to 2hr 30 mins. She is currently on about 2hrs 10 or 2hrs 15 mins so a bit less than average.  Today I tried to extend her in the cot, and she kind of went back to sleep with shh/pat but it was a very light sleep, and she woke up again every time there was a noise in the house even though I was there doing shh/pat the whole time.

She can get herself to sleep (I pop her in the cot awake and leave the room, and 95% of the time I don't hear a peep until 45 mins later), she self-soothes by rubbing a muslin over her eyes, we have a 10-15 min pre-nap wind-down, so I feel as though we are doing everything we should be...  but still we have short naps!   

Does anyone have any suggestions - should I reduce or increase A time?  She rarely shows tired signs until we start the wind-down so I find it hard to go on her cues.

I suspect I just need to try it and see but am so wary of ending up with 30 min naps and nightmare night wakings (which is what happens when shes overtired) that I wanted to see if anyone had any great suggestions first...! 

Our routine:

7am get up and BF (she's sometimes already awake, sometimes I wake her)
8am solids
9am-ish nap - usually this one is 1.5-1.75hrs, can usually extend if wakes after 45 mins
11am BF
1pm ish (or 2hr 10 mins after last woke) nap - usually 45 mins followed by second 45 mins in buggy which takes us up to about 3pm. On the rare occastion it's a good nap I wake her around 2:30pm
3pm BF
4:45pm catnap for 30-45 mins (earlier if really bad naps earlier)
5:30pm solids
7pm bed time (earlier if really bad naps)
10:30pm BF

We usually have some NWs if overtired, also hitting some milestones at the moment and she's waking up all over the place in the cot!

Thanks so much

Bryony 

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 18:06:13 pm by Katiesmummy (Bryony) »


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2007, 18:49:24 pm »
Hey, Bryony?  Have you considered dropping the catnap?  Sure, not what you want to hear when the naps are short as it is.  It may take some adjustment time, okay, so it WILL take some adjustment time.  But I just wonder if she's trying to say she doesn't need 3 naps.  Just a very random thought I'm putting out there. 
Oh, and do you start the winddown at 2 hr 10 or aim for her to be in the bed at 2 hr 10 min?
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2007, 18:58:39 pm »
Thanks Heather!  Yikes, no I hand't considering dropping the catnap - in fact I  moved it later as we have lots of NWs if she's awake more than 1hr 30 - 2hr in between end of catnap and bedtime...  although I guess if she slept better during her naps she might not need it.. it's a bit chicken and egg isn't it!  The odd time she's had a late afternoon nap and missed the catnap we've also had wierd NWs every hour during the evening...

The 2hr 10 min is when she's asleep - I start the wind-down about 15 mins before that, and put her into bed about 5mins before if that makes sense...

Bryony


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2007, 19:09:30 pm »
I wish I had the answer for you.  I went through the short naps with dd until she was 6 mos, and it just kind of worked out around that time.  What happens with her nap if you wait to put her in her bed later?
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2007, 19:12:54 pm »
How do you mean - put her into bed eg at 7:30pm insead of 7pm?

Bryony


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2007, 21:48:04 pm »
Sorry.  I meant, for instance, if your winddown normally starts at 2:00, then you have her in her crib by 2:10, what if you started winddown at 2:10 and had her in her crib at 2:20/2:25?
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2007, 06:54:18 am »
Last time I tried it (a month ago) we ended up with 30 min naps and even more NWs...  but that was a month ago so maybe I will try it again...

Bryony


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Offline bethanys mummy

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2007, 11:24:07 am »
Hi Bryrony, you know I cant help as my lo is chronic short napper too.... but would be really interested in views on the "iftful" second cycle of sleep, as this is what often happens for my lo, if I can get her to extend

Does this indicate under or over tired??

Ex
Emma


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2007, 13:41:08 pm »
This is my opinion:
wake up early from nap and is wide awake, mostly happy:  undertired
wake up early from nap, frustrated, crying, hard to get back to sleep:  overtired

It's not an exact science, and every lo is so different, but these occurances are what indicates problems for my lo.
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 14:12:51 pm »
Thanks Heather  :)

It's so hard to tell as she usually seems happy initially (happy to see me!) then grizzly a bit later. Anyway today we ended up with a much longer A time (nappy disaster just as we were going for a nap....) and she did 1.5hrs!  So will try that again tomorrow. It was wierd though she was much harder to get down - cried for a while rather than lying there without a peep - but once she was asleep she stayed asleep longer. Anyway will try it again tomorrow!

thanks again

Bryony


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2007, 20:34:00 pm »
Bryony-sounds like what I see as undertired cues.  Seem happy, but then realize, "hey, I really could have used some more sleep  :-\ ," a little bit later.  Makes keeping a routine a bit difficult.  As for today, a longer A time usually takes a few days to get used to, but pays off in the end.  If you're going to make A time longer tomorrow intentionally, I would keep the last 15 mins very, very low key as to keep her from getting overstimulated.
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2007, 08:50:54 am »
That's really helpful Heather, thanks so much!  I will definitely go for gradually extending A times with some low key walking around the house or whatever, and see how we go.

She's also been hard to settle in the evenings these last two days so I think maybe we are having a big shift in what she needs sleepwise - it may take me a while to get it right but I am more confident now that something needs to change!

thanks again

Bryony


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Offline HeatherC

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2007, 13:04:11 pm »
Sorry that I didn't give you a big YIPEE for the great nap yesterday.  Way to go!!!
Kelsey, Feb. 4, 2005
Landon, Jan. 2, 2007

Offline Bryony

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Re: Undertired or overtired - how can you tell?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2007, 13:29:42 pm »
Thanks!

Well today we went for the same A time - and she went down great but woke up at 45 mins, yawning and cross. Managed to get her to back to sleep after half an hour of shhing though.  Will try it for another few days to give her chance to get used to it, then see how we go.  At least yesterday gave me hope!

Bryony x


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