Falling at first nap then a complete mess - help!!

[bethanys mummy]

All

me again

I was the one with the 5 month old who slept in the pushchair but who gradually became a short napper and then gradually I could not extend. so from last week I moved lo to the cot

Good news... :

- largely accepts cot and goes down either after playing (ie no fuss), a slight fuss or sometimes a light patting, yippee
- have dropped dummy for going to sleep at night - big 
- lo has self extended 3 times - not done this for ages

But also big problems

Pat / ssh does seem the best thing for us - as I say it can settle her for the nap and has been used with some success to extend naps - varied success from 4 min to 20 mins patting..... PU / PD seems to confuse the situation

But I have now had 2 days when its all gone pear shaped at the first nap, pat ssh did not work then was so awake all day with very short naps, despite me trying every AP under the sun in desperation!!!

So what should I do if pat sssh does not seem to be working:
- give up and move on (ie forget the nap) after 20 mins - but I really need to understand when to try again with her because, as a seasoned 40 min napper she will then seem wide awake for another 2 hours with no real cues, and I am worried that I am reinforcing the habit
- PU / PD - hmm.....
- W2S - hmmm....
- what do you do if they are crying and burying head, do you continue to pat / ssh then or just use your hand / voice to allow them to settle themselves, if I move away she screams but also wonder if I am stopping her settling

Also the times she has extended her own naps they have been 1 hr, 10 - ie 30 mins + 40 mins. Although I am sooo pleased she has done it is it actually a bad sign that she is doing 30 mins??

Am I just expecting too much too soon and should be grateful for what I have achieved ie a short napper in a new location!!!

 

(In terms of EASY, she is fine on the feeding side with 4 hrly or more if need, its just the naps.... A time before the first nap is about 2, 10, give or take)

[malialeanne]

Congrats on moving the cot and dropping the dummy! It sounds like you've come a long way!

So what should I do if pat sssh does not seem to be working:
- give up and move on (ie forget the nap) after 20 mins - but I really need to understand when to try again with her because, as a seasoned 40 min napper she will then seem wide awake for another 2 hours with no real cues, and I am worried that I am reinforcing the habit
- PU / PD - hmm.....
- W2S - hmmm....
- what do you do if they are crying and burying head, do you continue to pat / ssh then or just use your hand / voice to allow them to settle themselves, if I move away she screams but also wonder if I am stopping her settling

I don't know about giving up on pat/shh because I never did! I kept at it because I knew that she was tired and that eventually she WOULD sleep. Babies have a strong drive to sleep and need to sleep (even though they fight it so much sometimes) and eventually, sleep will win. It took about a week or two of consistent pat/shh until the patting time was drastically reduced. If you're having to always pat for 40 minutes I would look at A times to make sure she's really tired. Some babies can handle 2.5 hours or so at 5 months--each lo is different but longer A times can really help with short naps for some.

If she's crying and burying her head you're probably right that she's trying to settle, you can use your voice to soothe and keep a hand for contact if she needs it. I used to pat the bed next to her and gradually slow down the patting, and resume patting her if she got worked up again. You just have to experiment to see what works best.

It takes a couple of weeks to see a real change, so it sounds like you're doing great! Keep it up!

[bethanys mummy]

Thanks for your support

She was sooo overtired last night, cried for an hour yet before bed sitting quite happily chewing fingers

Its just that I did pat sssh for 1 hr 20 mins one time with no luck....

Just also trying to wok out when to put her back down after a 40 min nap, she seems so wide awake

DO you think its worth watching her nap sometimes - worry that she will spot me!!! & wake her up some more

[bethanys mummy]

Snuck in to look at her napping, def jolting going on from 30-40 mins. Did pressure at the jolts and she did sleep for 1 hr, 10 mins -  , of course she may have been going to do this anyway

Do the 1 hr, 10 min naps mean anything?? ie overtired  / start pressure at jolts earlier etc

Thanks

E x

[malialeanne]

I think you may be ready to extend A times a bit. We get 1 hr 10 minute naps when A times are on the short side.

[bethanys mummy]

Interesting.... time to tweek!!!

[KathrynK]

hi there
I spent months holding Sophie through those pesky jolts but it sure did help extend her naps- some days I did feel like a nap prisoner but it was worth it in the long run.
I think Malia is right with the a times needing tweaking- although 30min naps are often caused by overtiredness I don't think that's the case here as if she was genuinely o/t there is no way she would go back to sleep and she would get really upset. Sounds like you are doing great!

[bethanys mummy]

Hi

this am's nap was a mess, tried to extend A time but not much as she was grumpy, she woke after 15 mins but easily patted off, then one big jolt at another 30 mins and no way going back to sleep

Any thoughts?

BTW with times when I have patted her she has sometimes gone back to sleep, other times not

So confused - over or under tired??

[bethanys mummy]

Sorry, just to add> I then took her for a walk in the pushchair, determined to get some sleep into her somehow so we did not end up like wednesday, after about 20 mins she finally went back to sleep (so this was about 45 mins after big jolt wake in the cot) but it was a very restless one and re rewoke at 30 mins

Does all this imply overtired to you??So basically this week on mon, wed and fri she woke early, on tues and thurs she did 1 hr 10

Does this help???

[bethanys mummy]

Any views on whether the above indicated under or over tired would be welcome

Another thought I had was the "bad" sleep days were when her big sister was around - over stimulated perhaps?? If so then would you adjust A times for this or increase wind down period??

What are good wind down ideas for a 5 month old as she is very wide eyed so it mostly seems to wind her up...??

[KathrynK]

hi again
there was a really good post a while back about overstimulation causing short naps- heres' the link:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=89906.0

can't say whether over or undertired from what you describe- it may be neither and your routine is basically fine, but if there's a connection between short naps and big sister it may very well just be down to overstimulation
have a read of that link and see what you think x

[rooser]

We have been having a similar problem the past few days now.  My LO became a great napper around 3 months and now it's a nightmare of waking 30 minutes into the nap.  Shush/pat worked when he was younger and I attributed his good napping of the past month and 1/2 to that conditioning and watching for cues.  Now, all of a sudden, the past 3 days, he wakes and shush/pat doesn't help, PUPD doesn't help, he's not even sleeping long enough to really crib bump and the whole day is wrecked b/c he has a bad morning nap.  I don't know if extending A time will help us or make it worse. 

[malialeanne]

Hi Rooser,

Short naps can be caused by many many things. Longer A times often do help, but if the short naps are caused by overtiredness then longer A times can make things worse. If you'd like to post your question and routine in a separate thread we can take a look and offer some insight.