Waking Early (4:45) - 11 Months

[mum6791]

We have had major progress, but have one last issue - waking up at 4:45.  We received some great help here a while ago about her constant night wakings.  These are pretty much gone, and things are a lot better  .  This is what her schedule looks like right now:

4:45 wake up
4:45 - 5:45 pd (never successfully)
6:00 milk
7:00 breakfast
9:00 - 10:00 nap (always have to wake her)
10:00 snack
12:15 lunch
1:15 - 2:30/3:15 (varies day to day)
3:00ish snack
5:00 dinner
6:00/6:15 asleep

I'm wondering what I should be doing.  Should I continue the to pd in the morning?  There is anywhere between 1 - 10 min between these so I was wondering if she is getting a little bit of sleep and if I should instead just get her up at 4:45?  Should I try w2s?  If so, what time should I go in at?  And if it doesn't work should I continue with the pd?

I have tried an earlier bedtime, but this seems to have the affect of getting her up that much earlier.  I have thought that maybe she is having enough sleep and it might be time to move her schedule forward but is 10 1/2 hours enough at this age?  Should I tweak her schedule or shorten her morning nap more or just slowly start to move things out?  If this is enough sleep, I'm fine with just moving things out, but I'm thinking it might not be enough and am scared of having an over tired baby again.

Also she is so tired by dinner that she is not eating a proper dinner.  I don't think she is waking up due to hunger as she is pretty happy once she is up.  She starts to get really tired by about 7:30, and the next 1 1/2 hours is pretty hard keeping her up.  We have been doing this for over a week now.

Any help, suggestions would be wonderful.

Thanks again!

[macsmum]

is she awake from that 4.45 wake up, if so then i would move her am nap forward, 4.45 to 9am is a long A time.....
also if she is too tired to eat her tea then she needs more rest in the day?


Emma

[mum6791]

Thanks for the reply.  I have been given advice on early wakings that I should get her to bed early and try and maintain the routine i.e. long A times in the morning to get her to a normal time for a morning nap (had she slept long enough at night).  If I let her sleep longer in the morning her afternoon nap is way shorter.  I seem to have found a really good balance.  She is napping between 2 1/2 to 3 hours each day - is that not enough at 11 months?  Also with the 10 1/2 hours at night I'd rather add the extra sleep she needs to that, I'm just not having much luck with my current routine. 

She is awake from 4:45, but with the pd for an hour she seems to get a little bit of rest here and there (sometimes 10 minutes at a time).  I think if I make her daytime sleep longer she will sleep even less at night and I have it in my mind she should be doing 11 hours or more at night. 

I guess what I'm saying is I could try and make her daytime sleep longer and accept the 10 1/2 hours at night if this is the only way, but I would prefer a way to help her sleep longer at night instead 

[momofclaire]

I agree with Emma. That long A time in the morning has got to be wearing her out, and then the fact that you wake her from that nap. I think that early morning wake is because she is not well rested during the day.
2.5-3 hours of naps a day is about right for her age but in order for her to remain rested they need to be spaced according to what she can handle. 
While you are fighting the early wakes I would also have her in bed a bit earlier. I know she is already in bed at 6 but if you try putting her down a half an hour earlier maybe you can bank some extra sleep in order to get her more rested.
Myia
 

[mum6791]

Ok I'm going to give it a try.  Do you think the following routine is good or can you suggests any tweaks?

4:45 am wake up (don't seem to have a lot of control over this)
8:15 - 9:45 am morning nap (she will hopefully do this if I don't wake her)
1:00 - 2:30 pm afternoon nap (more if I can get it)
5:30 pm bedtime

So should I let her sleep for as long as she wants at nap time?  Are two 1 1/2 hour naps good?  More if she chooses?  Also, when she does sleep in later than 4:45 (hopefully some day!) should I just move the whole routine that day by the amount she sleeps in?  Also should I be doing pd in the morning?  I guess if she is down at 5:30 and waking at 4:45 (hopefully this doesn't get earlier) then pd won't be required.  Also if she only sleeps for an hour for the morning nap should I put her down 1/2 hour ealier for her afternoon nap?

Thanks for all of the help!

[momofclaire]

I think that routine is an improvement.  Two, 1.5 hour naps should be ok if she is getting good sleep at night.  Depending on the night before I might let her sleep a bit longer (15 minutes).  If she only sleeps an hour for the morning nap I wold keep the afternoon nap the same.  Many babies her age are doing 1 hour in the morning and 1.5-2 in the afternoon. 
Hopefully once her nap situation irons out she will be sleeping later than 4:45 and you can have a later wakeup and bedtime. Let me know how it goes.
Myia

[mum6791]

She had me up at 4:10 this morning!  Yesterdays routine was as follows:

4:45 am up for the day
8:00 am down for a nap
9:25 am up from nap (woke by herself at this time)
1:00 pm down for a nap
2:10 pm up from nap (not chance in getting her back to sleep)
5:30 pm down for the night

I couldn't get her back to sleep this morning - this is way too early!  Is there something else I can try?  I'd like to put her back down at 6:00 tonight as 4:10 is too early.  She seems to wake up at almost exactly 10 1/2 hours.  I tried just patting her this morning as pd  seems not to work in the morning.  I had no luck.  Any help would be very welcome.

Thank you.

[momofclaire]

Is she happy when she wakes then, or tired? 
If you think she just needs a bit less sleep during the day to help her sleep longer at night you can limit the first nap to an hour and let the second one be 1.5 hours. 

[mum6791]

She is still sleepy when she wakes.  I really thought that patting her would have done the job for getting her back to sleep, but she may go back for 10 min and then is up again.  I had a lot of sucess with patting for extending her naps (those use to be 30 min).  She takes a little while to fully wake and then is pretty happy for about 1 - 2 hours.  At that point she is so tired.  She does really well between her morning nap and afternoon nap (as far as being happy and awake) but is so tired about 2 hours after her afternoon nap.  Dinner and bath are not very enjoyable as she is so tired by then.

I could try and shorten the morning nap and see what happens.  We were trying this before but with a really long A time in the morning.  Maybe with a normal A time in the morning (maybe 3 hours) and the short morning nap she might sleep longer at night.  Definitely worth a try.

She is getting so much more sleep then 2 months ago.  We had major nw (up to 8 times a night).  She is doing so much better, I feel I might be asking for too much but I really feel she needs about 45 min more at night.

[momofclaire]

Sometimes patting doesn't help with babies her age.  It is a bit to stimulating.  You may try pd for the morning wake and see how that goes. 
I would first try the shorter am nap and longer pm nap and see how that goes.
Keep me posted
Myia