Overtired or undertired???

[lesorl]

I need serious help.  My lo is 8.5 months old, and has always been a terrible napper (usually 37 minutes, and an occasional 75 minute nap 1-2x a week).  The past 2 days have gone like this:

6:03am Awake
S 8:50am - 9:42am
S 12:56pm-1:21pm, back to light sleep until 2pm

Bed 6pm

5:36am Awake
S 8:32am-9:19am (asking for pacifier prior to nap, and resting head on shoulder)


Do the morning naps mean over or under tired- more or less A time?

[HeatherC]

What is his/her temperment when he/she wakes from naps?  How is his/her overnight sleep?
My ds is 8 mos old, and he likes his morning nap at about 2 hrs of A time.  He will do okay with 2.25.

[lesorl]

She's spirited, and she wakes from naps ok.  Sleeps through the night.

I've tried 2 hours A time in the morning, but she'll sleep less than 35 minutes.  I just don't know if I need to increase or decrease from 3 hours A time.

[HeatherC]

I hate that I don't have more precise suggestions to give you.  Hopefully some others will chime in.  My babies weren't spirited (touchy and textbook) so it's harder for me to make suggestions.  The thing I do know from BW about spirited babies is that their sleepy cues can be hard to notice b/c they can get more active when they are actually tired.  It seems like she is just out of sync with her internal clock.  Has she always been an early riser?  If it were me (and this is just me, so take it for what it's worth), I'd treat anything before 7 am as a night waking and attempt to resettle the lo.  However, if 6 am has been her wake time for quite awhile, that might not work.
Generally speaking, I believe that if the lo takes a short nap but wakes happy, they were undertired.  They were only sleeping enough to rest for the amount of time they were awake.  This becomes a problem when they start getting tired again shortly into the next A time, then might be overtired by the time the next nap rolls around.  It's a vicous cycle.  If you've tried everything else, try somewhere in the middle of 2-3 hrs in the morning for A time.  It might be 2 hrs and 42 mins, crazy I know, but you will have to watch her like a hawk for tired signs.
I hope something I've said might help.  Please keep posting as you need to, and if we can't figure it out, we'll get some more help.

[lesorl]

Once she's awake, she's awake- I could do PD for hours, but she won't go back to sleep.  She hasn't always been an early riser, generally 6:30ish, but the poor napping has resulted in an earlier bedtime.

This morning after 3 hours A time she slept only 26 minutes!  Aaarrgghhh- she had a couple of yawns about 30 minutes before her nap, but yawning does not necessarily mean tiredness for her.  I'm beginning to think Peek-a-boo's strategy of shifting nighttime sleep to daytime is what our problem is.  Yesterday after 2 hours 55 mins A time she slept 47 minutes,  then slept 65 minutes after 2 hours 55 mins A time.  Would that indicate morning A time too short? 

I'm so confused.  Maybe I need to add the catnap again to push bedtime back later.

I have no idea

[jcsmom]

I just wanted to let you know that we're in the process of shifting night sleep for day sleep as we had the same problem with our 6 month old.Every day was different and sometimes he would have A times of 3 hours and sleep for 1 hour or sometimes it would be 1.5 and he would sleep for the same amount. It has taken us a week of shifting his sleep to get to where we want to be in terms of a routine but I have yet to see any difference. Today is really the first day of our "routine" so maybe over the next week I'll see some changes.

I was putting him down soooo early as I heard an early bedtime meant longer naps but it didn't matter what I did, he still sleeps the same amount over a 24 hour period. We're still not sure exactly how much he needs because this week we have been waking him in the morning, and naps have been at totally different times as have bedtimes. But it seems that he only needs 12.5-13 (we were hoping for 13.5 and some days he's done almost that). Sorry to hijack your post but maybe this idea may work for you! Good luck. Remeber to log exactly how many hours she sleeps including wakings in the night!

[moken]

Not much advice but just wanted to let you know that you're not alone!  My lo is 8.5 months and his naps are usually 30 - 45 minutes.  For around a month he was doing 1.5 hours for his morning nap but now we've gone back to 30 - 40 minutes.  I've tried extending and shortening his A time but am left so confused as nothing seems to work!  Even though everyone says that they should be at 2 naps now we're still doing the cat nap because I don't think that 2 x 30 minute naps are enough for him, unless by some miracle he takes 2 good naps (which has happened maybe 4 times ever!).  He really fights the last nap and I can't get him to do it in his crib so I usually do it with him in the rocking chair or car.  It takes around 5 - 10 minutes of rocking and then he'll fall asleep for 30 minutes and I do it after 2 - 2.5 hrs of A time as he's so exhausted.  I know it's a bad prop for him but it's the only time I use the rocking chair for him to fall asleep.  He sleeps through the night from around 8pm till 6am to 7am but I've noticed that if he's really overtired from bad naps he wakes earlier.
I thought that by 8 months he would have grown out of this 45 minute problem and I keep hoping that he will any day now!  I think if she's a bad napper you should keep the cat nap in until she's able to start doing longer naps.  Hopefully that will also help with the early wakings.  I'll do anything after 6am but before that is just too early for me!

[Bernadett]

Hi there!
I seem to have the same problem with our 8-month old little lady. She has never been a very good napper, but she usually had 2 longer naps a day (1-1.5 hours), or sometimes 3 shorter ones (30-45 mins.).
But during the past week she just started to refuse to sleep during the day!
Nothing new has happened, I do everything as I have done before, she isn't teething, etc. But when I put her into her crib, she starts to cry after some minutes of cooing and playing. Slowly but surely I go mad, because I don't know what to do... What might have broken her routine? Why does she cry? Earlier she just played for some minutes in the crib, stood up, cooed, etc., then laid down and went to sleep independently (sucking her thumb). I didn't even have to be in the room (and were not there).
It doesn't seem to be separation anxiety, because she doesn't cry WHEN I leave the room. It seems to be a cry to tell me: "I don't want to sleep". But an 8-month old HAS to sleep during he day, right? Today she slept 30 mins. after lunch. That was all for the day.
She sleeps through the nights (11-13 hrs.) since she was appr. 2 months old, so no problem there (yet...).
She is ok during the day, and doesn't cry although she seems to be really tired! Yawns, pulls her ears, etc., but when I try to get her to sleep, she refuses and starts to cry heavily. As soon as I take her out of her crib, she smiles and starts to play.
Can 30 mins./day be enough for an 8-months old?
What can I do? Shall I do anything? PU/PD just makes her even more angry...
 
Is she overtired or undertired???

Thanks very much for any help/advice in advance!!
B.

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

Bernadett - 30 minutes a day is certainly not enough for an 8 month old.  I feel for you.  How stressful!!!  When did she start refusing naps??  Is it because she has started to crawl?  How long is her A time usually?  Would you mind quickly posting your routine??

[Bernadett]

Dear Anne,
First of all: thanks for your reply! Yes, I can tell exactly when it began: on 14-Sept. It was a Friday. On Thursday everything was okay, but since that Friday she does not want to sleep...
Well, in the meantime it came to me that she might be teething despite my first saying she was not teething...
Her nose has been running for a few days and today she seems tohave diorrhea... Everything under the diaper is red...
Although she doesn't seem to have pain in her gum...
She doesn't sleep much and well during the day, but I don't want to make her get used to props like rocking, etc., so if she doesn't sleep, I let her.
Well, about her routine:
It seems to have totally broken, so there doesn't seem to be much sense in posting it, I guess...
Today she woke up at 6 am. crying, her diaper full.
Then she slept until 9, when she had her breakfast.
Activity & walking outside until 12.00, nap until 12.45, and at 13.00 she had her lunch (not as much as usually).
Activity until 15.00, when she was hungry, but wanted only a little formula (very little).
Activity until 16.15, when she managed to fall asleep. Now it is 16.50 and she is still sleeping.
So, as You can see, everything is out of the rut...
You mentioned crawling. Well, she started crawling and standing up at 7 mos, and it had no impact on her sleeping and daily routine.

Can it be teething according to the symptoms??

Thanks a lot,
Bernadett

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

well it looks like your day has been a bit better (not perfect of course, but much better than only 30 minutes a day of napping!) so that's good!  I would definitely attribute some of the issues to teething.  Runny nose, diahrea (sp??) and diaper rash are all signs of teething.  Has she gotten any teeth before or are these her first?  Is she putting a lot of things in her mouth?  My ds gets a runny nose when he is teething and my little sister (now 3.5 yo) always got a diaper rash right before her teeth came in.  Hopefully things are starting to look up for you.  If you find you are getting 45 minute naps you might want to try increasing her A time a bit.  3 -4 hours of A time is normal for babies 8-10 months old but if she is happy otherwise you can leave it alone