Guess this is a sleep issue

[fiona1274]

I have a 21 month old (Angel) girl and a 17 month old (Grumpy) girl and a due number 3 in 8 weeks, I am terrified.
This problem is a number of issues I guess but the worst for me at the moment is sleep.
I have always maintainted that children are not hard work but just a constant but now I am starting to find my youngest hard work.
Like I said she is a grumpy cnild, she is very willful, stubborn and throws temper tanrtums. I didn't know this was possible but now I think about it she has always been like this from birth. The Midwife asked if she was very active in the womb as she was very angry at birth, and she has never changed. I find her difficult to calm down and when she gets angry she will hit anything close to her including me, her sister, dad, dog etc....
Anyway about 3 months ago we moved the girls into the same room as we need the space for number 3. On the whole it is OK but if Angel child wakes up through the night, bad dream, sick (which has been on and off now 8 weeks) she makes a real drama out of things and I can settle her but generally she has woken her sister and she is full flow temper tantrum. It takes about 2 hours for her to fully calm down and be ready to go back to sleep. I have always just got on with having broken sleep, but when the next one arrives how am i going to divide my time? Never mind find time to breast feed?
Anyway a few nights a week when we put her down she wont settle and we end up bringing her out of the room so that she doesn't wake her sister, she will occasionally calm and we can put her down awake but more often than not she falls asleep on me. She will settle for naps most of the time but if she wakes.
I have never found her very easy to sleep train due to her nature and have tried doing put down, she will settle for a short while, ie when I am in the room but not if I try to leave. She will start screaming straight away.
Has anyone got any suggestions. Am I being to idealistic in thinking that children should go to bed and not wake up or can anyone suggest how I am going to split my time when no3 arrives?

[andibig]

Just bumping this up for you.gonna give the other mods a holler and see if they can come up with some suggestions

[grahamsmama]

Gosh, my second is like your second, and it is really hard.  Fortunately, number three is a total angel.  And number one is pretty good at sleeping too.  I have a couple of suggestions.  Have you read the Love & Logic books?  I think they have really great advice for the temper tantrums.  Consistency is going to be really hard for you in a couple of months, so you need to just throw yourself into it right now and hope for the best.  As far as sleep, what we ended up doing is bribing her.  We got a little vanity table that she really wanted and we put it in her room.  It can stay there as long as she sleeps in her room.  She can come and tell us if she's afraid or something, but then we walk her back to her room.  Turns out she is totally proud of herself for sleeping in her big girl bed.  Do you have a dp/dh or someone who can help you?  The answer to your question is that you can't split your time when #3 arrives.  It is just too much.  So, you need to get a routine down now, what you say when she wakes up screaming, how you keep her in her bed, etc. and then have someone else take over that part for you when your baby comes.
One other thing, our pediatrician suggested switching Elizabeth to a multivitamin with iron.  He said sometimes not having the extra iron can contribute to sleep issues.  It does seem to be helping her some. 

[fiona1274]

Wow, that great advice. Thnaks, my dh is good but doesn't always agree with the methods. DD1 has slept through the last two nights and it has been comlete bliss but I know it wont last. We are being very careful if she watches the TV and also trying to get DH to stop talking about monsters, he has always liked giving the girls frights and will even wrestle imaginary monsters is she says they are in her room but think she has too good and imagination.
I asked the dr about a multivit the other day but they didn't seem to bothered. I may try her on one for a while, she has a pretty good diet but over xmas and new year there has been an infulx of treats and a drop in good fresh cooking so wont do a harm.
She has started to take a doll to bed which she has never done before and I have explained that she has too stay in her bed all night and look after it. Like I say worked the last two nights but not sure.
As for DD2 she is challenging but every day she gets a bit better, can voice what she wants and needs, so hopefully we will get there together. She gets so frustated when I dont understand, she has such a short fuse. I will chesk out that book though as temper tantrums are an issue I have very little experience with with DD1.
When do they understand discipline ie naughty spot? I think I started it about 2 with Amelia but Niamh is very quick to hit and I would like to tackle it somehow.
Your kids look gorgeous by the way. Your DD2 has the face of an angel like mine not sure how they can possibly cause so much havoc!!

[grahamsmama]

Your DD2 has the face of an angel like mine not sure how they can possibly cause so much havoc!!

Some days I do find myself thinking "It's a good thing you're so cute, kid"

I think 2 is a reasonable time to start time outs/naughty spot.  I think until that time I just used re-direction.  Elizabeth would throw herself on the ground and scream, and that girl has staying power!  I would just sit down on the floor with her and tell her I could see she was feeling very sad/mad/whatever.  Then I ask her if she needs a hug.  If she says no, I tell her that's ok, I"ll ask you again in one minute.  Then I ask her again and she typically says yes; I think that gives her a sense of being in control, which is really what she's fussing about anyway.

[fiona1274]

Thats a good policy and basically what I did with DD1 but I seem to have lost my way slightly. I guess it is a time issue but I know if I get on it now this should make things easier in the long run!! I find it hard disciplining the oldest one one way and the not showing the same tactics with the younger one. DD2 has started going to the naughty spot herself now, not beacuse she is on trouble or upset or anything just takes herself of and sits there...not sure if I should discourage. I have explained she doesn't have to sit there but she seems qiute calm and happy so dont want to force the issue.

[grahamsmama]

LOL- Elizabeth does the same thing, just goes and sits on her time out rug.  I think sometimes she just needs a break from her brother!

[lyndsy_p]

Just lurking ladies, and wanted to say thanks to Lyn about the "do you want a hug?" tactic. I have a feeling I may need to use it when Grae is older

[fiona1274]

Thats reassuring. The hug thing is a winner have used it a few times today already. Even with the older one when she has a strop and it works quite well.