wide awake club

[pod]

Hi there
I have had my (12 weeks old) dd on a 2 hour EASY which I realised was too short and was actually being driven by her 45 minute naps rather than hunger, so I've probably been encouraging her to snack 

So I am now trying to get her onto a 3 hour EASY by extending her A time and trying to sort out her naps.  I am now using pat/shh in earnest and must say am really pleased with how its getting her off to sleep to being with.  the problems come when she wakes from her first sleep cycle.  She is PING - wide eyes, wide awake, smiling at me, looking around ... arghhh!!!!  I have been creeping into her room at 35 mins and when she starts to stir gently putting pressure on her legs (this is sometimes how I get her off to sleep) and shh-ing, as well as trying to cover her eyes (impossible when she's craning her neck to look around! we've tried to black out the room but I do feel its still quite light)  - just when I think I've got her over the hump, she wakes.  Yesterday I twice managed to get her back to sleep but had to pat-shh for the entirity of the 2nd sleep cycle.  But the last nap I gave up because she was just so awake.  And the same this morning.  She was crying a hunger cry (slight coughs in teh back of her throat) at just over 2 hours, but has been going for 3 hours without a feed so I don't understand it.  I think she's just over a growth spurt.

Here's her 'routine' from yesterday, but this isn't exactly a routine as yesterday was the first day I did this (this morning's A time was only 1.25 hours and she was very ready to go to sleep - she fell asleep with no pat/shh at all so I do feel I got that right).

E 7
A 7.15
S 8.30 (45 mins then remainder pat/shh to keep her asleep)
E 10
A 10.15
S 11.30 (35 mins then remainder pat/ssh)
E 1
A 1.15
S 2.15 (woke at 45 mins ping awake)
E 3.15
A 3.30
S 4.15
E. 5.15
A 5.30
Bath 6
E 6.15
S 6.30

As I say this gone to pot today already. 

Am I doing something wrong?  How long should I persevere with trying to sooth her over the bump before trying something else (eg. w2s)?  I feel very frustrated and wonder what on earth I'm doing!!!

[tullyma]

I posted about the same struggles last week. I've now come to realise that feeding 2 hourly is WAY to much food for some - even my 5 week old. It's probably OK for the first 2 weeks of a baby's life, after that they're just snacking rather than getting a nice full tummy. I think it's the full tummy feeling that helps them stay asleep longer. A 2hour EASY becomes a vicious cycle of catnap/snack/catnap/snack. I didn't want it to turn into a habit.

For the past 2-3 days I've stuck to my guns and have only fed my DS 3-hourly. The difference already is HUGE! I've also lengthened his A time. Funnily enough, we got past the 45min catnaps by going out, rather than staying in. You know how the car/pram/baby carrier puts them to sleep? If DS started to stir or cry at the 45min mark, off I would walk with the pram or if he was in the baby bjorn I would start to jiggle around until he went back to sleep again. It took a while sometimes but it's much easier than shh/pat (esp since I have my 3yo around too). It might be AP but it seems to have reset his body clock! He slept longer than 45mins for every nap today (other than the late 5.30pm short nap), and we stayed home all day. No AP required to settle him! I think increasing his A time certainly helped too. I pushed past the tired signs (even though my DS settles really well if I put him down as soon as I see them too) - but not by much. If he was really getting agitated I'd put him down straight away, after patting and settling him a bit in my arms first to wind him down. I'm sure he'll still catnap lots but I'll do my best to resettle him (a bit of crying then a dummy does wonders ). I'm not going to feed him until the 3 hour mark rolls around.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll get some good advice here. Just thought I'd post my own experiences over the past few days 

[pod]

Hi Luci
Thanks for your response.  I had a dr appointment this morning so we had to go out so any sort of nap routine didn't happen, but I fed her after 2.75 hours (couldn't hold out any longer) and have just put her down - she was pretty overtired, lots of tears..  

I think you're right, I need to stick to my guns re the 3 hour thing - its very hard when she's clearly hungry though!  I just can't get her to feed any longer either (she's always been a turbo feeder, only feeding for 5-10 mins unless on a growth spurt).  I think I probably am caught in a bit of a vicious cycle.

She's never taken a dummy so I can't use that.  Also I have just moved her from an Amby hammock to her cot as I was using the bounce and rock as a prop so am reluctant to introduce another!  I do find the pat/shh does (sometimes) eventually get her back to sleep, but I just have to keep doing it to keep her alsleep, if I stop she wakes!

Did it take you just 2-3 days to see the difference by lengthening A time?  It sounds so short written down doesn't it, but whilst going through it feels like eternity!

[tullyma]

DS still did the 45 min nap this morning, even after over an hour of A time. I think it's pretty common in the morning huh? Perhaps cos they've had so much sleep overnight. Anyway, we couldn't get past 2.75 hours either! He then fell asleep on the 2nd breast. I tried to wake him up a bit whilst burping but he just got very fussy so I put him into his cot, thinking if he goes to sleep I'll just play with him after the next 45min nap then put him back down for another sleep before feeding at 11.45am (ESASE). But he's been lying there awake for nearly 40 mins now! That's fine by me. As long as he's amusing himself in his cot and not crying 

Your DD sounds very much like mine at that age. She was VERY alert and it was always hard for her to unwind and self-settle, unless she'd had a very short A time. She was also a super fast feeder, 5-10 mins max. Is your DD breastfed? If she is, you'll probably find she's ready to give it up soon after you introduce solids. At 6 months my DD would only breastfeed for 1-2mins. In the very early days my dad made us a rocking cradle for her to sleep in as she wouldn't settle unless there was movement. I moved her into a cot at 3 months too!

Do your best to slowly lengthen the A time (perhaps over a longer period than we have, maybe 5 mins a day?) and hopefully she'll sleep longer. Good luck 

[pod]

Yesterdays naps were ok in that I was able to pat/shh her through each second sleep cycle, but she didn't really sleep through them.  And then this morning I extended her A time to 1.5 hours and at 45 mins she woke - after a while of craning her neck looking around alert she started to cry and cry and cry - screaming blue murder, to the point that I gave up and took her downstairs because I just couldn't do it any more.  Pat/shh wasn't settling her, nothing was settling her, except for leaving the room and handing her over to dh.

So now I don't know what to do for the remainder A times today as when she doesn't sleep through her S time I think that means I should only keep her up for a while rather than try to extend it.  I feel like such a horrible mummy when she's screaming and looking at me as if to say 'help me' and all I'm doing is patting her back - it doesn't feel very effective. 

[tullyma]

HUGS. I know how you feel. Is it too early to do PU/PD? I can't remember what age they're meant to be when that works better than shh/pat. I would persist with it though, whichever method you decide to use. A friend told me yesterday that one reason babies do 45min naps is cos they're tired enough to have a quick nap but not to "sleep". That makes so much sense. So today, DS did the 45min nap thing. He started to cry but I was in the middle of something so I didn't go into his room right away. I crept in when he was quiet and he was laying there wide awake. He stayed awake for ages then went back to sleep again on his own. I think eventually they know you mean business if you stick to your guns with the no-feeding thing. Otherwise they just wake up and think they're going to be fed, IYKWIM.

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

Hi there!  Just want to chime in and say pu/pd isn't recommended for babies under 4 months   HTH!!  And good luck with the 45 minute naps...they can be very draining

[pod]

Hi there - thanks for your replies.  We are making small breakthroughs (the occasional nap going beyond 45 mins) so that is encouraging and spurs me on.  Pat/shh is proving to be relatively successful so won't be trying pu/pd!

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

great to hear you are having a bit of success.  I didn't do pu/pd until ds was almost 7 months - it is mostly used as a last resort...even now I would rather shh him and rub his back than do pu/pd.