only 1 NW left to fix

[jcjc205]

I don't think that will help since she's more often up earlier than 8.

I'll try it tomorrow morning and let you know how it goes. I'll also try to go to bed at 9 to make up for lost morning sleep.

Also, should I continue with the bottle at 6am or stop that?

Thanks again

[mari]

Getting an early night is the only way to cope.  Sometimes I was in bed at 8pm to combat the night wakings.

[finlays mam]

any progress jc?

[jcjc205]

Well... she gets at least 7 straight hrs of sleep every night. She no longer cries when falling asleep. I don't really help her much, I just sit in her cot/crib until she's asleep. So this is definetely progress...

However, she's still waking up between 3 - 5 am. She usually goes back to sleep but I just can't seem to get rid of this one.

Last night I tried reducing the milk from 8oz to 7oz. She woke up at 4:30 but settled back down w/ some help from me. Then up at 6:30, gave her milk but she realized it wasn't enough and she didn't go back to sleep.

She's also not naping very well either. She usually averages one 1-1.5hrs nap. Maybe this has something to do with it.

Thoughts/suggestions?

I actually thought about reducing the milk by 10ml every day. What do you think?

[mari]

At her age I think that she should have around 18-20oz per day along with solids, if she is getting that then you should be ok.

As for the nightwakings, what is her exact routine now?
Let us know her wake up, nap time and length, bed time.  How does she go off to sleep now for naps and bedtime?

Sorry to ask this again but it's probs changed after the sleep training so it will help to get the updated picture.

Thanks, and well done on your progress.

[jcjc205]

My aunt does not believe in schedules, so she doesn't really have a nap schedule. I can't seem to be able to convince her.

"She naps when she's tired" she says, so somewhere between 12 - 2. She usually naps 1 - 1.5 hrs. Even on the weekends when I'm there. I just can't get her to nap any longer.

Sleep:
About 5 hrs after she woke up from nap I take her to bed. She takes 30min - 1hr to fall asleep. All I do is sit in her crib. Also, I found this music box that she really likes, so I play that until she's really sleepy, I turn it off before she's completely asleep coz I think it's pretty loud. I don't pat or rub her back or anything since when I do, she pushes my hand away.

She sleeps until about 3-4am (depending what time she went to sleep). Then she usually wakes up and I go to her and settle her back down. Then she wakes at around 5-6am. At the second wake I give her milk and sometimes I bring her to my bed. Then she sleeps until 7 - 8:30 (again, depending what time she woke up before).

Is these two NWs that I need help with getting rid of. Like I said before, I thought about reducing the milk by 10ml every night. Or I could water it down, add 1 oz of water every few days. Or I could try "wake to sleep".
She's definitely drinking enough milk and eating enough during the day.

Which would you recommend?

[mari]

ok, if she is drinking enough milk during the day then I really think that she shouldn't need it at 5am so IMO you should stop.  When I made that decision with Alex I did it cold turkey. (I'm hard eh!!!!!)
You could try a sippy cup and try to encourage her to look for it if she is thirsty as I really think that the sucking of the bottle is a prop.

The other thing is  that when you take her into your bed, that could also become a prop that could become earlier and earlier.  TBH, if she wakes and it looks like you can;t get her back with any kind of WIWO or SH pat, then I would be inclined to start her day.  Even after a year of Alex sleeping in her own bed all night, she can have one night of sickness that will make me take her to my bed and she will try to get there every night for the next week!  So you see how easy it is for them to get into a habit!  Make that habits that you encourage positive ones.

Are you actually in the room when she falls asleep?  If so, I would try to get out of the room as soon as you lay her down, maybe through Gradual withdrawal or WIWO.

Wake to sleep is only suitable for habitual wakeups that occur at the same time every night, I dont think that this sounds like it will cure your problem.


I would also try to ask your aunt to come on board with you.  Try to explain to her what you are going through and the importance of keeping her sleep patterns the same so that you can get her schedule in order.  You are right in trying to put her to bed around 5-6 hours after wake up from the nap, but the nap also needs to be long enough for her to be able to avoid overtiredness.
Are you due any holidays?  Then perhaps you could get her into a routine over a week or two and it might be easier for your aunt to follow your pattern.  Or maybe you could write it down and ask your aunt to follow it.  She is your baby at the end of the day and although you feel that your aunt is doing you a favour and you won't like to tell her, I am sure that if you put it to her in a way that she can understand that it will benefit your daughter in the long run she should understand and work in partnership with you.  She should really be doing this with regards to everything, not only sleep as when it comes to discipline matters for instance, it will be imperative that you work together to ensure that your daughter has the consistency of care that she deserves.  (sorry to go off on one there but I am working together with parents everyday like this as a childminder so I really know how important this is for your daughter)


I hope that this is helpful and doesn't sound too much like a lecture!  sorry if it does, it's not meant to be, I have just been to a lecture and find it hard to get out of school mode for a few hours.

[jcjc205]

Mari,

Thanks for your answer. It does sound a bit like a lecture but I think I needed to hear that.

I can't get rid of milk cold turkey, but I was hoping that either watering it down or reducing it slowly would help. Or maybe I could delay it, say 15 minutes every few days.

I cannot possibly start the day at 4:30am. It would never work for either of us. She usually goes back to sleep after her milk and sleeps until 7 - 8:30.

I am in the room but just sitting on her bed. I don't think this makes a difference since we're still sharing a room.

Believe me, I've tried explaining this to her over and over. She just doesn't believe me and dismisses everything I say by labeling me an "unexperienced mother who believes everything she hears".
I know this is gonna be a problem later, when my LO is older, but I don't think she'll be around then. I can't really take vacation time from work right now. I did when I first started sleep training 3 wks ago, so I can't again for a while. I did write it down, and she ignored it. She also doesn't believe in overtiredness, which is becoming a huge disagreement between us. She believes that if someone is tired, they'll fall asleep and stay asleep and sleep late. She also believes that an early bedtime means an EW.
Actually, last night I wanted to get her to bed at 6:30 (when I got home from work) so I asked my aunt to feed her dinner at 5:30. She did not, and she purposely made it so that I couldn't put her to bed until 7:30, even though she woke up from nap at 1pm. 

Anyways... sorry about my rambling... do you think the reducing/watering/delaying the milk would work/help? If so, which one should I try first?