Naps lasting 1hr 10 mins

[deb77]

HI
Just a quick question about naps ds naps are consistently 1hr 10 mins and have been since he was 7 months ( he is now just over 8 months). Is this a sign of ot/ ut ? His A time is 3 hrs sometimes we push it to 3 hrs 10 mins if he got up early. He is still not sleeping through the night so I would like to work on this. I have tried cutting A time but this means putting the catnap back in which lengthens his day considerably and as he still wakes up v early means he is getting even less sleep. Thanks Debx

[claires mum]

Between 8-10 months, the average A time is between 3-4 hours. 

1hr 10 min naps indicate that he might be a little UT...can't quite make it through the 2nd sleep cycle.

On this basis, I would try and extend the A time by 15 minutes for 3-5 days and see if that has an impact.  You can extend another 15 minutes after 5 days if it's not doing the trick.  If you think he can't handle the extra A time then we might need to look at some other factors.  Can you post your routine (including meals) for us?

[deb77]

Hi thanks for your response.
Our routine on an average day
Awake 6.00
Eat- milk and cereal 6.30
Sleep- 9.00- 10.10
Milk- 10.20
Out and about- 10.35
Lunch- fruit- veg/ protein 11.45
Sleep-1.10-2.20
Milk- 2.30
Tea- 3. 15 veg/fruit ( am just starting to introduce protein)
Bath 4.20-4.50
Milk 4.50-5.10
Asleep 5.10- 5.20

As you can see he goes to bed v early but as his norm is to be awake for an hour and a half in the night I have no problem with putting him to bed early. I am quite sure this is due to overtiredness. He has never slept very well each time he has reached an age where he is getting enough sleep as he has got older he then starts sleeping less. Just when 2 1.5 hour naps was correct for his age within days he went down to 1.20, then 1.15 and now we are on 1.10. By the way he goes to sleep independently- is not fed in the night, does not have a dummy, and I use shh/ pat and pu/pd to get him back to sleep but you could set your watch by the hour and a half he is wake. He wakes at different times each night never the same time two nights running but it often happens between 11.00 and 12.00 and no matter what i do if I do not catch him in the first couple of mins it will be an hour and a half in fact when it get that time I often just leave him to it so he does it himself. sorry if i have gone on a bit but I have just had another 'typical' night. Any thoughts would be welcomed. debx

[monsi]

No advice sorry but my 8.5 month dd often has naps around that length too so I am just interested in keeping an eye on how you are going and what advice you get.

[deb77]

Hi
 Tried w2s today at 1 hour. Am not sure if this is the right time but as I have a 2 year old to look after I don't have time to sit and observe ds sleeping. Anyway it did not work. Yesterday he miraculously slept for 1 hour 45 mins at his morning nap and low and behold he slept through the night last night. I think I am going to try one more day of w2s this time at 55 mins. If that doesn't work will start to extend A time. Any thoughts about our routine would be useful. debx

[claires mum]

I do think that you need to extend those A times.  My feeling is that he is UT and hence not sleeping the full 1.5 hours.  Often when there is not enough day sleep, the night sleep is interrupted = NWs or EWs.  By the looks of it, when he does get a good day sleep..the nights are also good.  So I think you have something to work with here.  I would up the A time by 15 minutes and see what happens.  Let me know what you end up doing !

[deb77]

I tried w2s a few times and if I can catch it right it does work and he sleeps for 1.5hrs. I also tried extending the A time by 10 mins but this has ended with some 35 min wake ups and 40 mins of pu/pd to get another 40 mins sleep. On the days he gets 3 hrs sleep in the day he sleeps through the night. is w2s a long term solution? debx

[claires mum]

W2S is a short term solution - it's only meant to be used for a few days from memory.  So the extra A time looks like it was too much?  Did you try it for 3 days..it takes this long for a change to take.

[deb77]

I have not tried for three days in a row yet as we have had a hectic Easter weekend and he has had too many naps in the car. Today I thought I had done it perfectly. He woke at 6 and at 8.40 he yawned and started to shout at me so we started to wind down. He was asleep at exactly 9.00 and I thought I would do w2s at 10.00 but no he woke at 35 mins and even after an hour of pu/pd he was not asleep. So who knows how the rest of today is going to work. I suppose that is all the evidence I need that he needs more A time even if he thinks he doesn't.- we will just have to keep it very low key. debx

[claires mum]

Keep me  posted....

[deb77]

feeling a bit stuck. Yesterday woke at 6 asleep at 9.15 and he slept for an hour and a half, brilliant. In the afternoon tried again- he seemed fine but he only slept for 35 mins. I tried shh-pat and pu/pd for half an hour but then it was getting near milk and tea time so i got him up with a view to putting him to bed early to try and make up for lost sleep. I tried to put him down for bed at 5.15 but he did not actually go to sleep until 6.15- he was not crying just chatting to himself. So unsurprisingly he was awake for an hour and a half in the night. This morning he got up at 6.20 and with a bit of shh- pat he had 1hr 40 mins sleep. My problem is I an desperate not to get caught in the overtired cycle as we have just got out of it but he needs to be awake for longer in the day to sleep through the night . I don't now whether to enforce the routine rigidly and risk the ot cycle or be more flexible letting him sleep longer in the morning  or after pu/pd to make sure we get 3 hrs sleep in the day to keep him asleep at night. Any advice? debx

[claires mum]

Hmmm...I found that if I had a bad PM nap I would try for a bridging nap of 20 mins in the afternoon (car ride!).  If I couldn't get that catnap in, I would put Claire to bed early - but only by 20 minutes or so.  She would be OT by this time but otherwise bedtime was just TOO early and she'd just take forever to go to sleep. 

There are 2 schools of thought re your issue, you'll need to judge for yourself which one to use (sorry!):

1)  if you have a short nap at any time - keep the next A time shorter (by 15-20 minutes) and try and make up the lost sleep at the next nap.  If you can't make up that sleep, then early to bed (again - only by 15-20 mins)

2)  stick to the routine as by 8 months of age the circadian 'clock' is set to those times and you can usually get back on track the next day.

I used option 1 and it worked for me.  If a 6.00 wake up and 9.15 first nap worked for you..then try to stick with this.  Hopefully it will continue to work.  Play around with the second A time (how long was it by the way?) - it looks like it needs to be a little shorter (maybe take 15 minutes off this one for the time being and see if he takes a longer nap).  Is he sleeping through the night?

[deb77]

Quick update as haven't been on line due to older dd sickness. Ds seems to have adjusted to longer A time in the pm. We do still get variable sleep times but all are over 1 hr 10 mins. His A time in the morning is now 3 hrs 35 mins and this gets us 1 hr 25- 45 mins nap time . I have tried longer and he can nap for 2 hrs but this throws the day off completely. In the pm his A time is 3 hrs 20 mins and we tend to get a 1 hrs 15-30 min nap. His A time until bed is 3 hrs and this seems to work. Out of the last 2 wks he has slept though the night 10 nights. debx

[monsi]

Wow, that is brilliant. Glad to hear you are getting some good night sleep. I think it is time for me to start playing with nap times. You have inspired me.

[claires mum]

Fantastic news....well done.