Long Napper - now turned into NO napper!

[mumma2cubs]

Hi Guys,

My son used to catnap all day long and became overtired.

I LOVE BW.

BUT.......now, I have a long napper on my hands (in the morning). He is 8 weeks old.

Should I wake him up if he is sleeping between 3-3.5 hours?

He eats every four hours - won't eat properly on the 3 hour EASY. Can't stay awake past 1 hour.

Hard to know which EASY to do. He sleeps beautifully at night for the moment - I hope the long naps won't change that!

Help!!

[marensmama]

Hi and welcome to the BW community!  And congrats on your little miracle!  We ttc'd for 6 years before finally conceiving our first daughter, so I know first hand the joy you are living with your little man!  My second daughter is currently waking from her nap so I'll come back to this, but if you could please post your routine and we'll go from there!

Thanks!

[mumma2cubs]

Hi marensmama!

Congrats on your little miracle as well  it is absolutely amazing when it finally happens - nothing can prepare you for the joy you feel.

I am really struggling though with capnaps or really long naps with Cooper. At night he is generally sleeping really well - but it has started to get a little difficult over the past few nights.

This is Cooper's 'usual' routine:

A - 7am - 7.30am
E - 7.30am - 8am
S - 8am - 8.45am

This is his best time of the day in relation to grumpiness and really easy to read his tired signs. Will go down for a long nap.

A - 11am
E - 11.30am
S - 12md - 12.15pm

This timeframe consists of 2 catnaps around 12md - 12.45pm and then again at around 1.15pm - 2pm

A - 2pm
E - 3pm
Serial Capnapping - 4.30pm

Forget being put in crib to sleep - self settling is non-existent (although very easy to do this overnight and morning - requires NO assistance from me)

He'll usually sleep one sleep cycle then it will take another sleep cycle of 'shh/pat' to attempt to resettle. He is clearly OT but just will not fall asleep. At this stage he is usually brought out into the loungeroom - wrapped up resting to doze on a pillow until bathtime.

A - 6.45pm
E - 7pm
S - 7.30pm

Dreamfeed - 11.30pm

Wakes once more at approx. 4am - 5am for another feed then seems to wake between 6am - 7am (I let him stay in his crib whinging until at least 7am)

So in total he is sleeping for approx. 16 hours per day consisting of an approx. 10 hour virtually uninterrupted sleep overnight very easily self settling back into sleep. During the day I get 1 great nap in the morning and serial catnapping throughout the rest of the day.

The reason for the A before the E is my little one seems to spit up quite easily with activity after eating. The other thing we usually do (in the morning) is 20 minutes of activity laying down, 20 minutes to feed and then 20 minutes of activity on my lap (reading etc)

I am now also finding after introducing the Dreamfeed that he is putting up tiny protests when put down again at 4am - 5am. Not a nightmare yet, but the protesting is gradually getting louder.

He eats an average of 500mls per day (16.5 oz) but is gaining and growing nicely. 3 hourly feeding just does not work for him - he doesn't eat much trying this - but loves the 4-5 hour stretch. This is where we are getting a 4 hour period of activity then sleep with no eating.

I think that I am not doing a great job of EASY - but hard to know how to start due to not being able to do E first.

Cooper is 100% formula fed and we swaddle for every single sleep. His bedtime routine is identical each day as is his morning routine. The rest of the day is thrown because he hasn't read my rulebook and decides he has his own copy 

Any advice would be fantastic!!!!

[mumma2cubs]

Oh - he is also a textbook/angel baby - so if that helps

[stagemanager2]

congrats on the long sleeping through nights!!! at 8 wks!!!

I would say that the long morning nap is taking away from the others.  I would try to keep those naps no longer then 2hrs. 

Also question- in regards to the spit up, does your lo have reflux?  Have you asked your doc about it?  Just wondering... I'm nosy

[mumma2cubs]

Thanks stagemanager2,

He doesn't have reflux - just a spitty sort of child. Funny thing is it happens now and again, not at every feed - but when he does spit up and he is playing he gets upset.

Also, with the 4 hourly feeding during the day, is it ok to do a varied version of EASY. I've been thinking of trying something like:

EAS - 7am wake up

AS - 9am wake up

EAS - 11am wake up

AS - 1pm wake up

EAS - 3pm

AS - 5pm

EAS - 7pm

I was thinking that perhaps I could try a 'modified' 4 hour EASY for feeding purposes, but offer warm water instead of a feed (he LOVES water) for the AS part.

Will this cause any major issues?

I need to get onto this as a matter of urgency because today was just a nightmare. Wouldn't nap at all from the start - sshh/pat just did not work and I found myself giving into him with a dummy (I am personally against dependant dummy use - which is a pattern I can see at the moment)

Thank you again for your help

[stagemanager2]

I think that as long as he is getting enough caleries and isn't too bothered by the water if it works for you then go with it!   One of the great things about bw is that it's about you and your child and your family and how to make everyone happy. 

The one concern I would have is nw showing up more often bc of lack of caleries in the day.  Do you know what your doc would say about feeding him water instead of food?  He is young to need it.

ps I'm just gonna toss the schedule we used at this age at cha just for you to take a look at... I noticed you said he can't stay up more then an hour which makes complete sense at this age.  This is what mine looked like:

E 7am
A 7-8am
S 8-10am

E 10am
A 10-11am
S 11am-1pm

E 1pm
A 1-2pm
S 2-4pm

E 4pm
A 4-5pm
winddown
S 5:30pm

Waking @ 2am and somewhere around 4am  for food!

good luck (I tried to type fast hope it makes sense)

[mumma2cubs]

Yours looks great!!

I've just had success this morning.

Bub slept until 7am (no early wake up - YAY!) 

Started wind down 10 minutes before bedtime. Listened to soft lullabies for 10 minutes, then switched to the sleep system CD we use, popped him in his crib, sat with him for 15 minutes doing shhh/pat.

I felt my shhh/pat was keeping him from dropping off so I left him calm to work it out himself.

He mantra cried on and off with good amounts of breaks in between (probably dropping off then waking up) for about 10 - 15 minutes, then success!! ASLEEP  Without a dummy 

Morning is Cooper's best time, so anything new we start I always start it at this feed and sleep.

The rest of today will be a better judge of if it will stick.

I'm going to try him on 3 hourly feeds with smaller amounts, but my fear is he won't eat. This is what happened before and thus the reason for trying him on 4 hourly and offering a small drink of water for hydration/thirst.

[stagemanager2]

I'm so glad!!! yippie!!! Aren't those great moments? 

It sounds like you know your little man!  You are doing a wonderful job... it never hurts to try anything for just a few days ... well somethings perhaps are bad but on the whole what you're doing is great!

The only reason I asked about the spit up is bc my son was a 'vomiter' and I thought it was spit up... nope.  Turned out to be Pyloric Stenosis.  He would sleep through the night and took 3-4hr naps in the day because he was so dehydrated... it doesn't sound like your little guy but I promised myself that if someone mentioned something about spit up (aka alot of it) I would always ask just incase... overly cautious mommy here!

keep me up to date!

[marensmama]

Glad to hear you're having some success.  I tried to post but didn't get through it before my LO woke up from her nap, and Heather had stepped in with lots of good advice anyways.    I agree with Heather in that he's way too young for water, and he might feel full on water and want even less milk.  A baby his age should have milk for hydration/thirst and that's it.

With the reflux question, I see a few things that raise red flags for me:  spitting lots, taking smaller feeds, trouble with naps... Babies with reflux prefer smaller more frequent feeds.  They also have a hard time settling until they're exhausted (hence the rough naps but decent nights).  They also being held upright after feeds so they aren't bothered as much (possibly why he needs the A before E).  They are also 'bothered' by spitting up. 

My DD1 was a 'happy spitter', she was constantly spitting up but gained weight well and wasn't bothered by it.  She also was a champion sleeper, so we never did anything about it as she was very happy.  DD2 has silent reflux, meaning no spit up, but she had lots of trouble settling and wasn't remotely happy unless she was upright.  She also preferred smaller more frequent feeds.  Other signs of reflux are lots of hiccups, 'wet' burps, prefer being upright, fussing through feeds... there's lots more, but if you think it's even a question, certainly visit the colic,reflux&crying board's reflux 101 thread to see if it matches up.  Just a thought... reflux babes are so uncomfortable that I'd hate to overlook anything!

Another thought is that perhaps he spits ups so much because he takes more than he can handle at the 4 hour mark because it's going to be another long interval before his next feed? 

I EBF both my girls, so I no nothing about feed sizes (like how many oz. they take).  I was able to not worry about the size of the meal, just trusting them to let me know when they were full.  It must be hard with a FF babe not to worry about how much they are eating, but if I could suggest that you just trust him to take what he needs (keeping an eye on it but more so looking at the overall picture of appearance, behavior, weight gain).  Again, with BW, it's about going on your baby's cues and providing for his needs.  If the general rule of thumb is three hour feeds through the day (which won't change until he's almost 4 months) then use that guideline and if he takes less formula but is happy and gains well, then let that be your guide.

It sounds like you are really tuned in to him and are doing a great job of things already!

[stagemanager2]

It must be hard with a FF babe not to worry about how much they are eating,

TOTALLY!!!  I obsess about it now and ds is HUGE for his age!  We ff and at this stage he was taking maybe 4oz every 3hrs, he was over 12lbs at 8wks. 

Also- didn't realize about the reflux... wow lots of little things happening there... poor reflux babes

[marensmama]

Ya, I know how much I over-analyze everything, if I FF it would be enough to push me over the brink

[mumma2cubs]

I hear ya!!

Well - I've been keeping with Cooper's 3 hour EASY and so far so good. He is eating little - but for the moment I am choosing not to obsess.

He is still having disrupted naps - so that part is frustrating. I think that I might be putting him down a little early but I have found that if I wait until his eyes are droopy and he is yawning - he fights so hard he completely wakes up - then we are dealing with an over tired baby. He is waking after 15 mins, then sleeping for 45 mins, then doing the 15 - 20 minute wake up.

Nights are nothing like this. 7.30pm he is out like a light, DF is a literal dream, then he is up between 4-5am on his own with a decent sleep after that. None of this daytime stuff.

I hope it doesn't transition into the night sleeps 

Godness me! I remember thinking when I was pregnant "how hard can this be, you feed them, change them, play with them and they sleep"  yeah right!

[marensmama]

And just when you have this figured out, he'll throw another wrinkle into it!  Being a parent has taught me how little I really know!!

So, silly question, is there a happy medium between putting him down early and waiting until he's yawning?  Or maybe a longer wind-down or at least less stimulating last bit of A time would help him make the transition?

I don't think it will change the night sleeps, unless he gets hideously OT.  He's an angel-textbook, you said, so he should be easy to get onto a good routine.  My DD1 was angel-textbook and the only thing that ever disrupted her night sleep was teething or illness (whatever made sucking her thumb difficult).

Keep us posted!!

[mumma2cubs]

I can certainly try it.

I'll keep you posted.