No Naps at all!!!

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Hi, I am EBFing Zane who is now 6.5mths old.

At night he goes in hes bed fine andis asleep within 20 mins (sometimes a little whippering but not much)

BUT DAYS OMG, we have never done well. I know he is tired but he just wont sleep and then its time for the next feed (catch 22), then doesn't feed well and so the day goes downhill from then.

My rouine is this : at about 1.45 mins after feed he rubs eyes, so i talk to him softly and take him to the pram/cot lay him in and talk to him saying its time for a sleep,good night Etc...... He smiles at me with those tired eyes andhe is calm. BUT then i leave him and within 2-3 mins he is screaming, i go back and he stops as i touch his face but not always, when hes calm i leave again but he starts again and so on. He very rearly goes to sleep and if he does for about 45 mins. The only way that i cn get him to sleep longer is to feed again using EAEAS or sometimes even EAEAEAS and then sleeps 2.5 hrs but only once in the day, i can't keep doing it its wearing me down.

I think i need a wined down routine, can someone help?

Thanks Kate x

[Purplecattypants]

Kate, my wind down routine is as follows:

* Take to room, close blinds
* Change nappy
* Into grobag
* Read a story
* Sing along to lullaby player
* Into cot with white noise
* Asleep

Usually spend 10-15 mins doing this.

Do you think perhaps he isnt tired enough so is fighting sleep? He has quite a short A time for a 6.5 month old. Cues can also get unreliable after 6 months...maybe its time to start pushing the A time slowly and including a wind down so he knows its sleepy time. Most at this age are on 2.75 to 3 hours A time.....

What do you think? x

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

He only has that long as he is still on 3hr EASY, we tried to move to 4hr but it went  up and took me a month to get back to a routine (made lots of supply issues). I normaly miss the first sleep in EASY and then put him down sooner for the next one, so im doing EAEAS but its not working anymore and he was doing 2hr feeds with that too. He has never slept well in the day.

How can i get him to go 2.75 -3hrs if i can't get him past 3hr routine??

I will try the wind down routine anyway and see if i can get at least one good nap in the day.

Thanks Kate x

[brenda2]

hi kate
i agree with angela.  i think it's time to slowly move him to a 4 hour EASY and stretch his A time a bit.  45 min naps can mean UT, and if it's taking him a long time to go to sleep i'd bet that's what it is.  try extending by 10 or 15 min every few days.

at 6.5 months we were doing 2.75 hours A time and by 7 months we had dropped the catnap and she was doing 3 hours.

has he started on solids yet?  it may help to stretch the milk feeds if he's hungry every 2 hours.

our wind down is:
start quieter activities in living room (video)
into darkened bedroom
read books, she get s to cuddle her bear while we do this
sing lullaby and rocking
into crib awake.
it's short- maybe 5 min.

[binxyboo]

Kate is a bit younger than Zane, and he A times are at 2-3 hours now, depending on time of day. So, I usually try to feed her upon waking from nap, then if she has a long A time, I feed her directly before nap time. She sometimes will fall asleep nursing and I use compressions to keep her going, and then she will have a good nap. But naps are a bit helter skelter for us at the moment, so really I am the last person to be giving advice.
If we get a good first nap, the rest of the day usually goes well, but if we miss that first nap, it's a bit of a muddle of a day. Thankfully she is placid so it doesn't bother her, just me lol!
I find first A time is definitley the shortest, if she isn't asleep by 1.5 hours, I can kiss goodbye to that nap.

How many naps are you aiming for, we usually get 2 naps plus a catnap now.

I will lurk along....

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Thanks for replys

Im really worried about trying to stretch time between feeds, when i tried it before i lost all my supply and my abillity to pump (i used to get 6o's in one go, now i don't get the time to pump as he is feeding all the time), i can only pump after a feed and get an oz if im lucky. He empties both breasts every feed, i even let him feed for longer at some feeds to get him another small letdown. Since giving soilds (now twice a day) he is feeding even more frequently, im lucky if he goes 2.5 hrs at times.

Michelle - 1 nap would be nice!!!! lol

This is sort of routine today:

5am E
6.15ish S
7.30 E (wake crying)
8.15 Breakfast
8.30 A
9.30 moaning and rubbing eyes
10 S
10.20 wake A
11 E
11.40ish A
12.30 E (moaning)
1ish A
2 moaning won't sleep
2.30 E + solids
3 A
4 E (moaning)
4.30 S (YAY)
5.15 wake crying
6 E and top up EBM 5.5oz
6.45 A
7.30 S (straight to sleep)

Just writing it down i can see im so far from we should be doing but how ever much i try i can't change it.
How can i change it?

Kate x

[brenda2]

hugs kate.
i think he is OT.  he's doing a long A time and very short naps.   i wonder if you are confusing signals - maybe you are feeding him when he is fussy but he's fussy because he's tired?  i did this all the time with DD, i was feeding her so often when i really should have been putting her to bed.  like at 12:30 when he was moaning and you fed him (just 1.5 hours after he had last fed) he was probably moaning because he was tired, i would have skipped the feed (he had just eaten, he couldn't have been hungry) and straight to bed.

his A times now are 2.5 hours first thing, then 6 hours    before he did only 45 min nap.  he's way OT.

i would aim to have him asleep no more than 2 hours after he gets up, and then if that's a short nap put him back down after just 1.5 hours.  when you try to put him down and it doesn't work how long do you try before you give up?  you have to be really consistent with this.  the older they are the quicker they learn and if they "win" (mummy takes me out of the room when i cry and i get to stay up) it's going to be harder to get him down.  if he only does short naps you need to pack more of them in - like 4 or 5.

good luck 

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Thanks, So what should i do at 10 he should be tired right? I try for about an hour at times but he just wont sleep. Will try the above and let you know how we go tomorrow.

Kate x

[brenda2]

i think you are trying too late and missing the window.  it's always harder to get them down when they're already OT.

if he wakes up for the day at 7:30 i would start the wind down at 9:15 and have him in the bed by 9:25.  his first A time may be short... maybe only slightly longer than 2 hours at that age.  try with shh pat and pu/pd for 40 min to an hour but if he doesn't go to sleep take him out and do low key activity for 5 or 10 min, feed if it's time and go back to try to put him back down.

what do you do when he wakes up early?  is he crying when he wakes?  if DD was crying when she got up i could always get her back down, but if she was happy it was a lost cause.

if he does a short nap then the following A time will be really short.  just keep putting him back down to sleep and see how you do.

i know it's really tough - i've been there.  and it sucks doing shh pat all day with a screaming baby.  but it does get better if you can break the cycle of OT.  will he take a long nap in the car or stroller?  that may be an idea to break the OT...

hope it gets better for you 

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

When he wakes early from naps, he is usually crying. I used to try getting him back off but that doesn't work and if i leave him to get back to sleep on his own he screems.

Hes too noisey if i take him out, he doesn't sleep in car or pram.

I will try really hard today to get it right, it never used to be this bad and im sure i can try and get some routine back. I just think i have made it worse by feeding him all the time, but i had lots of weight gain issues (sorted now) and am para about him getting enough food.

Thanks for your time, its much easier when you talk it through with someone.

Kate x

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Well......

We started our day at 5.30 this morning (DH was home so DS wanted to stay up) Had a good feed and was wide awake so we came down stairs and he played in activity centre till 7am. He then started to yawn and rub eyes so i took him out and layed him in his chair to chill with a sorf book just for 5 mins, then i picked him up and sang quiet songs and patted him softly after about 10 mins was looking very sleepy so we went upstairs (i know i should have done this first) patted for a further couple of mins and layed him in bed. He just lay there calm until his eyes shut YAY YAY YAY. He was asleep within 20 mins and no crying YAY again.

Lets see how the rest of the day goes, fingeres crossed x

Kate x

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

I can't belive it its now 12.30 and hes been asleep since 12. This morning has been greatm, he woke at 8.50 and played with brother and sister till 9.15 and then started moaning a little. I fed him at 9.30 (4HR ), then had breakfast at about 10.30 and then palyed again till 11.40. Did the wind down in his cot this time, at first he wasn't sure but i talked to him for a bit and put some music on and in 15mins was asleep.

Thank you all so much Im sure i can keep to this now.

Kate x (with time on her hands today)

[binxyboo]

Sounds great!!!!!!!

[brenda2]

sounds great kate!!  i know what you mean about wanting them to have enough to eat, but if you spread out the feedings they'll actually take in more (i'm sure you know this).
sounds like you're on the right track!!  the more they sleep the more they sleep  kwim?!
keep it up!

[Purplecattypants]

Well done Kate, hope it continues