is it the best thing?

[mumx3]

I have been trawling the site looking for support on helping my son (9 weeks) to fall asleep...but more importantly stay asleep.

I have been having trouble with my son staying asleep for naps and getting him through the jolts, where he wakes and then we have to start over.  I have a touchy/grumpy baby, but luckily our nights are great.

He has had a bedtime routine since 2 weeks old...6.30 bath, pj's, bottle and in bed at 7.  He is normally rolling his eyes and drifting as I put him down with a dummy (paci) after his bottle and he falls asleep independently and is df at 10.30 then wakes a 3 and 6 am when we start the day. But at night after feeds I put him down and walk away and he drifts of alone.

In the day he is hardwork...my other 2 kids constantly disturb his attempts (and mine) to help him move through the sleep cycles and so he rarely has a decent sleep in the day unless in the car or pram. But after reading other peoples stories of patshh and sleep training at this age.....I am for now letting this go as he is so good at night. I figure once he gets to 4 or 5 months I will try setting morning and afternoon nap times (within EASY) and he may deal with this....but in the mean time I am not going to let it rule my life or his...i dont want him spending his life in a dark room trying to go to sleep. 

I have read about situations where people are having to hire sitters to help with other children so as they can deal with sleep training and spending most of the day in the bedroom with the baby just trying to get them to sleep.

I believe totally in Tracy and her techniques but when people are doing this day in day out with really young babies (under 3 months) is this the best thing for baby and the family.

Maybe the baby is just a little young and needs that comfort and help with soothing to sleep and when they are a little older it will work more easily.

My daughter was an angel baby and fell asleep in her crib alone at 2 weeks old and napped for 2 hours out of every 3...I thought it was all down to the BW techniques.  Now I find myself with a touchy/grupmy baby I realise sometimes it is much harder than it seems on the programmes or in the books!

[*Nicola*]

Hiya

My DD1 was touchy/textbook and DD2 is angel/textbook so I totally agree that a lot depends on your baby as well as on the techniques   For me that is the beauty of BW ... adapting things to your LO/family and using what works for you. 

As far as whether babies are too young .. personally I don't think so.  But I do think that you have to do what works for your own family and baby.  With DD1 we used BW to get over accidental parenting at 9 weeks old.  With DD2 I didn't have the luxury of so much time so although I had independent sleep in my mind from Day 1, we focused on it when we could/at certain times of the day/when it suited the family as a whole

I believe totally in Tracy and her techniques but when people are doing this day in day out with really young babies (under 3 months) is this the best thing for baby and the family.

Again, I think it depends on the individual.  With my second daughter I really didn't want to have to deal with correcting AP at an older age.  I was committed to sleep training from an early age and BW worked well for us.  We didn't sleep train at every nap and some days we did no sleep training at all

Many babies are crying all day long, day in day out, due to OT and lack of routine etc.  BW helps make sense of that, and for me that was key!

Babies work on night time sleep from birth - 3 months and then on day sleep from 3-6 months.  Sounds like your baby has night sleep pretty well sorted, so will start to organise day sleep later on.  As this is developmental, it's a good time to focus on naps We tried to have the EASY pattern in place already so we were just focusing on the sleep   If you want to post your routine, wind down etc then hopefully we can give you some support with day sleep x

((hugs)) x

[mumx3]

Hi there

thanks for the offer of support!

I am doing a 3.5 hour easy as 3 hours left him fussing with the bottle, and only taking 3 oz not the 5 he used to.

routine looks something like this

E  6am 5oz
A nappy, dressed back to bed
S 7am to 8.15 (extension of nightime) into car seat/pram for school run usually drifts off within 10 mins so continues sleep

E 9.30 am 5oz
A
S 11.00am drifts off in car seat when I go to collect dd2 from pre school and he stays asleep when I get home.

E 1pm 5oz
A
S 2.45 drifts off in car seat/pram when I go to collect dd1 from school and stays asleep when we return

E 4.30pm 5oz
A
S 5.45 sleeps on me or being rocked in chair for 30 to 45 mins....if I try to put him in crib he will keep me messing about trying to go to sleep until he is so over tired the whole evening goes pear shaped.
A 6.30 bath, pj's
E followed by bottle 5 oz
S 7pm

E 10.30 DF 5oz but normally can only get 3 oz down him
S

E 2.30/3 am wakes for feed but only takes 2 or 3 oz's
S

E 6am wakes for feed 5 oz

There are variations...for example if i dont hve school runs then the sleep pattern is more erratic and I find it really hard to get him to stay asleep.  I get him asleep by watching for tired cues, then winding down by holding him with dummy in bedroom for about 5 mins o until his eyes are staring/rolling then put him down and stand out of sight until sleeping.  But if the dummy falls out/ he hears a noise then he is wide awake and crying.  Pat shh makes him melt down and I have found if he ends up crying in the crib then I have to take him out and start the winding down over then put him down and watch him drift again.  then normally just as I go to leave the room or within 5 mins of leaving he is crying again...he cannot seem to get into a deep sleep during the day unless the car/ pram is what sends him off....or me holding.

any tips

[*Nicola*]

Hiya

From your post I can see a couple of things

1) It seems like you *may* have some props that your baby is relying on to go to sleep eg; sleeping in car seat and pram, rocking in chair etc.  Lots of babies obviously fall asleep in pram/car seat etc (my own would do it on nursery runs) but it is important that they are also able to fall asleep in the cot too.  I think this is why you are finding sleep more erractic on days where you aren't out and about. 

2) EASY routine, A and nap times.  At 9 weeks most babies have an A time of around 1 hr 15 mins and have 3 naps of 1.5 hour each plus a catnap.  Most babies are on the 3 hour EASY but if you are feeding 3.5 hourly then I would be moving feed to slightly later in the A time, rather than actually extend your LO's A time - unless he is able to tolerate a longer A time. 

If pat/shh seems to lead to a meltdown it may be because he is already OT etc or maybe because he is not accustomed to falling asleep this way. 

x

[mumx3]

I totally take your point about the props!  I am well aware of them  but it is impossible to avoid him drifting off at those times and I cannot avoid the trips out in favour of sleep training as the other kids have to go to school.

Therefore I have been doing the sleep time ritual and sleep training whenever I am in the house but I will persevere more with the evening catnap! 

I also totally get what you are saying about the length of awake time...I will clock it and see how long it really is...and then consider if part of the battle is actually him being ot when I am ready to put him down.

Thanks for the pointers, I will let you know how it goes!

[*Nicola*]

I totally take your point about the props!  I am well aware of them  but it is impossible to avoid him drifting off at those times and I cannot avoid the trips out in favour of sleep training as the other kids have to go to school.

Hope this didn't come across as patronising!!! I totally understand where you are at.  I have a 5 year old and a 9 month old so the 9 month old 'fits' around big sis We sleep trained knowing that some naps would be in car, some A times would be stretched etc, but focused on having a solid, consistent wind down, good A times etc when we could (at weekends, when DP was home, when DD1 napped)

The catnap is usually seen as a 'freebie' - a nap that can be taken anywhere, on the go, in the car etc.  It is important that they take this nap to prevent OT at bedtime and NW's Lots of babies resist the catnap and it can be particularly hard if they are OT from during the day. 

I think the A time when you are in the house is crucial.  Too long and he will be OT before you start, too short and he will be UT and not ready to sleep or will short nap.  Have a look at the A times over the next couple of days and let us know how you go

9 weeks is still young and there is plenty of time for him to learn sleep skills

[mumx3]

No not patronising...helpful.

Well today he had 2 great naps in the morning...the first for 1.5 hours in his crib and the second for 45 mins in his crib and both times he went down an fell asleep independently with me hiding in a corner in his room.

This afternoon he had a long sleep 2 hours but he fell asleep in his car seat when we were getting ready to go out and was still sleeping when we got back.

I have been keeping an eye on his A times and he is doing 1h 20 then I see sleepy signs.  But he is really content during the A times.

He had a cat nap this afternoon but it was literally 20 mins sitting on me (oops) right before his bath time.
 
But went down to sleep as easy as ever... he literally lay in his crib with eyes staring, then closing and I stayed a full 20 mins until he was completely asleep....he has now been sleeping 3 hours and has just got himself through the 3hour mark when a feed would normally be due...so I will do a DF in 45 mins and then hopefully he will only wake once like last night.

Last night I only gave him 3 oz as this is all he has been taking at the 3am feed for about a week (and still going til 6 am).  Tonight I am going to see if he settles on 2 oz and hopefully will still go to 6 am.

fingers crossed things continue to go well...!  Thanks!


This evening we did he normal bed time routine of bath, bottle bed and

[*Nicola*]

    WOW!!!!!!

Sounds fantastic, well done!!!  Looks like you are spot on with his A time, that will help no end with him falling asleep independently

Bet you are thrilled