Author Topic: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?  (Read 1125 times)

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Offline a2mom

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Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« on: August 18, 2008, 14:58:34 pm »
Hello everyone.  My DH and I are gearing up for PUPD starting next weekend (waiting for DS to finish getting over a cold).  But, before we do that, I want to make sure it's necessary and see if you all have any other thoughts on what could be going on here.  My DS is 9.5 months old.  He was an independent sleeper with swaddle and paci until 7 months.  Since then we've been through a rough patch.  Had to wean the swaddle b/c it was too hot and he was rolling in it.  I used shush-pat, which I had never used before b/c it hadn't been necessary.  He goes do great for naps with shush-pat--often less than 5 min and no crying.  Bedtimes are still a nightmare, and we're having numerous NWs and EWs.  He seems to be able to sleep a longish stretch in the middle of the night, especially if we've had a hard time putting him to bed, but then wakes up every 1.5 hrs after that.  I've been BF-ing him at night.  He'd been down to 2 by 4 months.  During this cold, he was back up to 3.  Last night, I had him back down at 2.  The thing is, when I try to settle him with shush-pat during the night, he goes crazy.  Since we've been postponing sleep training until his cold is over, I end up bouncing him to sleep.  Why would it be that shush-pat works for naps but not bedtime and nights?  Is PUPD the answer?

Here's our routine:

6:30 Wake, nurse
7 solids
9:30 Nap (actually today was the first day of 3-hr am A time; he's been at 2 hr, 45 min)
11 Wake, nurse
12 solids
2:30 nap
4 Wake
5 Solids
6:15 Bath, PJs, BF, quiet time in room
6:45 bed
7 sleep

That's the theory, anyway.  It all goes great until bed time.  At that time, DS is really hyper (strange for him b/c he's textbook/angel).  We do a long wind-down in his darkened room, but still it's really hard to put him down.  It's so different from naps, where he gets sleepy and goes down immediately.  DH manages to get him down at bed time with shush-pat, but I often resort to bouncing him.  He often wakes after 45 min (although I've been going in and 30 and patting him down before he fully wakes up).  Strangely, if it takes a really long time to get him down, he sometimes makes it several hours before waking.  Like last night, he didn't wake up until midnight.  Then some nights, he has really long NWs--2 hours +.  He's not usually crying for these; just awake.  I use shush-pat, and he seems to be settling, but as soon as I take my hand off him, he wakes up again.

Could it be that 3 hours isn't enough A time at night?  On nights when he's been up longer, he just seems more hyper, but we haven't tried it for a couple of weeks.  I don't think this is related to his cold, b/c he's really over it.  He's not having any trouble breathing and he only coughs occasionally (like once per night).

I'm fairly certain that shush-pat has become a prop.  Sometimes he cries for us, and as soon as we come into the room, he lies back down and looks at us as if to say, "Okay, come on.  I'm sleepy; start patting."  (Very cute, btw!)  This would explain the cyclical wakings.  But why does he sometimes make it as long as 4 hours at a stretch?  Shouldn't he wake up at every transition if he needs us to go back down?

For his night feeds, he's pretty darn hungry--emptying both breasts.  I'm considering working on the gentle removal plan until the weekend just to get down the amount he's taking in, so that when we start PUPD, it will be less of a shock to his system.  Or is it a better idea to just make due until the weekend and not start on something, if we plan to go to PUPD?  I honestly don't know if DH and I have the patience to stick to the gentle removal plan...we're so sleep deprived that we may need a faster solution.  On the other hand, it seems a bit unfair to DS not to try it, since he'll suffer a lot with PUPD. 

I'd appreciate any thoughts!




Offline elmarie

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 17:10:28 pm »
usually pu/pd will not work with any prop being present.  This means when you start with pu/pd you need to be consistent using it with both naps and bedtime.  I will however, if he responds well with shh/pat stick to it for the night.  I think it is a problem at night because he has become used to mummy helping him out with getting him back to sleep.

I will also bring bedtime a bit forward so that he is in bed and asleep by 6.30 (if he wakes at 6.30) as took make sure that he is not OT when going to bed.  To answer your question about shh/pat becoming a prop: If used correctly it cannot become a prop as it is a sleep training tool that will teach your LO self- soothing.  Here is some links to help you explain this

babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64275.0

babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64108.0

What do you think

E ;)



Offline a2mom

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 18:07:57 pm »
Hi there.  Thanks.  Yeah, we definitely plan on making a complete switch to PUPD (abandoning shush-pat altogether) if we go that route.  We've tried earlier bedtimes without much success, but maybe we need to try that again.  Today DS is exhausted.  After several nights of taking an hour or more to go to bed at night, I think he has some accumulated OT.  Last night he woke every 45 min-1.3 hrs, with one NW lasting 2.5 hrs!

If I stay with shush-pat and use it for night and day sleep, at night it will be very similar to PUPD.  In other words, baby will be crying for a long, long, long time while I'm shushing and patting.  If that's the case, would it just be better to move on to PUPD, so that my involvement will be less?  In other words, might we just as well go ahead and get rid of the patting and shushing, since DS isn't responding to it?

Offline elmarie

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 17:16:58 pm »
Go for it-just remember to be CONSISTENT doing the same at night as what you are doing during the day.. :)

Let me know how it goes..



Offline a2mom

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 18:56:43 pm »
Can you tell I'm NERVOUS??  :)

Offline elmarie

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 06:26:05 am »
Part of it being successful is that you just need to relax and let DS feel that you are in control-it will all be ok sweetie and we are here for you to guide you through it. :-*



Offline a2mom

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 18:08:06 pm »
Thanks!  We're planning to start on Saturday.  I'm sure I'll be back for more hand-holding :)

Offline elmarie

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 08:33:34 am »
 :D ;) :-*



Offline a2mom

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2008, 20:15:58 pm »
Okay, tonight's the big night!  I'm going to be posting about it on my thread on the PUPD board, called "Can you check out my PUPD plan?"  Wish me luck!

Offline a2mom

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Re: Why does sh-pat work for naps and not at night?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2008, 13:16:04 pm »