Very short feeding sessions - is it really what she needs?

[olivetshka]

Hello everyone
I'm breastfeeding my baby almost 7 months now. She's my second child and I never have problems with bf. The first daughter was bf only 6 months - actually it was more mixed feeding - breast and bottle.
Amelia is exclusively bf since birth. She never had problems with inproper latch on or suckling. She was great with that from the begining.
As a newborn she ate every 2 hrs, which was fine with me, since I have tried to introduce EASY. I have change it little bit and it was ok.
I have a little problem now, when she's nearly 7 months old.
She's on 4 hr EASY and doing great, eating solids (3 meals per day) and bf of course. She doesn't have paci (never took one) and the bottle (I am about to introduce a bottle just for one feeding - I started today, she took it after few hours).
The thing is she doesn't suckle very enthusiasticly, like she's really hungry. She seems to love it, but her feeding session lasts about 2 mins 
Then she kick and want to sit on my lap. She looks around and when I lower her to eat again, she takes it and after just few second and few sucklings she's ready to sit again. And it's over 
I'm all stressed out and don't know what to do. Naturally when she doesn't suckle enthusiasticly and long enough, my milk started to disapear... My breasts are smaller and don't feel so full like before. I know, I know I'm producing as much as she needs, but isn't it too little?
Babies usually needs about 180 ml per feed at this age, and I can't make her to eat even 100...
Is it possible that's all she needs?
When I pump I don't have a lot - maybe 50-60 ml per breast (the fuller one).
I'm very confused by her eating sessions - so short and... strange...
It is going on for quite some time now.
Any advice will be gladly welcome

[woopster]

It could be that she is just eating quicker. At that age babies become much more efficient at emptying the breast. Your breasts are likely to feel less full as they are making just what she needs.
She is also at the age where she is likely to be distracted very easily. What's going on is more interesting than eating! 

You will never get as much from your breasts when you pump as you will when the baby feeds, so don't rely on that to give you an accurate amount.

[olivetshka]

Yeah, but the question is "isn't she hungry?". I ask myself that question every time she wakes at night. But when I put her on breast, she eats little bit and falling asleep...
So I think I should now post on "Night wakings"

Do you really think I shouldn't give her more? Should I stop pumping and let her eat more frequent from the breast instead to increase my milk supply?
It just can't be so simple...

[woopster]

Are you feeding her BEFORE she has her solids? 

She may be using the breast at night as comfort. HAve you tried resettling her without a feed?

[olivetshka]

Are you feeding her BEFORE she has her solids? 

She may be using the breast at night as comfort. HAve you tried resettling her without a feed?

She usually gets solids 1-1.5 hr after bf.
And I really think she comforts herself at night that way. I work on that now, but it's not an easy thing.
Sometimes I'm so exhausted I don't realize I'm actually feeding her :/
I have tried PU/PD - sometimes worked ok, sometimes not.
I know I should find strenght and fight it.
But I barely sleep 5 hrs at night - and not in a row...

[proudmum]

Hi Olivetshka,

I know exactly what you are going through as I went throught he same thing with my DD, also my second child.  At about 4.5months she started getting irritated with bf and took less and less time to feed.  I soon realised that she was a super efficient feeder and only took about 2-3min on each side to drain the breast and get what she needed. It stressed me out a lot because I was worried that she wasn't getting enough, but she gained weight well and had adequate wet nappies. 

This may be the case with your LO, she may be so quick at feeding, after all there are much more interesting things to do at this age.  In my case, my LO eventually weaned herself at 6months which made me sad but in the end she just was ready to move on.  Now she loves her bottles and her solids and is thriving.  I'm a huge advocate for breast feeding, but I wonder if you lo is telling you she'd ready to wean.  You mentioned you were starting her on a bottle for 1 feed, how is this going? 

You are doing the right thing by offering breast before solids.  And I agree with woopster that she's probably comfort feeding at night.  I feel your frustration with this, and I know jsut what you mean about feeding her before you even realise you're doing it! I was there a few months ago too  .  If you can find the strength to pat/ssh or pu/pd for 2 or 3 nights, I think she might get over that and realise that she won't get the breast anymore if she wakes up, and there's a good chance she'll stop waking up.  it is hard work short term but could be better for you and her in the long term. 

hugs to you   

[woopster]

You really need to find the strength to deal with the night wakings - if that's what you want to do. Doing pu/pd for a couple of nights here and there will only comfuse her. Do you have anyone at home with you at night?

I think you'll still be able to feed her. How often is she feeding during the day?

[olivetshka]

Thank you guys sooooo much
Tonight I did comfort her with hand on her back. Did PU/PD only 4 or 5 times. It took her some time to settle down (about an hour) but she did it. I gave her a feed at 3.30 am but don't remember if  she was hungry, or just comfort herself 
Tonight I'm going to do the same thing.
About bf - she eats 4 times a day.
Her routine looks like this:

E 7
A
S around 9.30 - 10

E 11
A
S around 2

E 3
A
S it depends - if she took good nap she won't sleep anymore, but if she slept 30 mins she will take another 30 mins in stroller.

A bath
E bf
S around 7.30 - 8

DF 10.30

She eats solids 1 - 1.5 hrs after bf.

I'm not sure about DF anymore. She doesn't seem very hungry, eats a little and after few mins falls asleep.
Last night she was up at 10.30 before I went there to give her DF and she took few sips and went off.
Woke up after 30 mins, I did comfort her and did few PU/PD and she was off after an hour. Then wake up at 3.30, I feed her and she was up again at 5. I took her to our bed. She was up at 6.30.
Does DF can interrupt her sleep?

[woopster]

It is possible that the df can interrupt sleep.
One night feed at 7 months is very good.
Do you want to drop the dream feed? If she isn't taking anything it may be worth getting rid of it.

Just looking at your routine - If you feed her at 7 and she is not having solids til 8/8.30 she may not be that hungry. What about giving her solids a bit closer to her bf? Say, 7.30/7.45. That way she has a good 3 hours til her next bf and she may be inclined to take a bit more. and not fil up on solids.

[proudmum]

Fantastic work on the settling at night    well done. 

I also think may be a good idea to drop the df, I know with my son we dropped it at about 7-8 months because he wasn't really having much and he was having plenty during the day.  pretty soon after I dropped it he started feeding through the night, so in his case it was definately disrupting his sleep.

When my DD was not bf too well, I  cut down her solids for a few days so that she was really hungry for bf.  then when she fed better in increased the solids again.  I agree that solids shouldn't be too long after BF, this might make a difference.  otherwise your routine looks pretty good. good luck with the settling tonight, let us know how you do. 

[olivetshka]

It is possible that the df can interrupt sleep.
One night feed at 7 months is very good.
Do you want to drop the dream feed? If she isn't taking anything it may be worth getting rid of it.

Just looking at your routine - If you feed her at 7 and she is not having solids til 8/8.30 she may not be that hungry. What about giving her solids a bit closer to her bf? Say, 7.30/7.45. That way she has a good 3 hours til her next bf and she may be inclined to take a bit more. and not fil up on solids.

Hmmmm, I'm not sure about DF... She usually takes few sips And the thing is she almost always wakes around 11 pm. Yesterday it was 10.30, today could be 11 or 11.15.
And I don't know what to do then. When I drop DF should I feed her? Or do PU/PD instead and feed her around 3 am instead?
I thought DF at 10.30 could be sort of w2s in those 11 pm waking (seems like habitual).
And I must say I really do the real DF about 4 days now - before I was waiting for her to wake up. I didn't know the must be asleep.
So I don't know anymore...
Maybe try it for few more nights and see what happen.
I will do the solids like you said tomorrow. Thanks!

[olivetshka]

Fantastic work on the settling at night    well done. 

I also think may be a good idea to drop the df, I know with my son we dropped it at about 7-8 months because he wasn't really having much and he was having plenty during the day.  pretty soon after I dropped it he started feeding through the night, so in his case it was definately disrupting his sleep.

When my DD was not bf too well, I  cut down her solids for a few days so that she was really hungry for bf.  then when she fed better in increased the solids again.  I agree that solids shouldn't be too long after BF, this might make a difference.  otherwise your routine looks pretty good. good luck with the settling tonight, let us know how you do. 

You mean "started sleeping thru the night", right?
But she always wakes around 11 pm. And I thought the DF could be sort of w2s.
Thanks for your reply and fingers crossed for tonight.

[proudmum]

oops, yes I meant sleeping through 

[olivetshka]

Tonight was horrible, just horrible I gave her DF at 11 and she woke up after 45 mins. Did comfort her with hand on her back and doing few pu/pd. She seemed to settled for few times - quiet and sleepy, left her alone and after few mins she was crying again... It was over an hour... Finally I gave her bf and she slept from 2 till 4, when I was so exhausted that I didn't have strenght to fight with her anymore. I just tooke her to our bed when she slept till 6.20.
I'm terrible tired, but hope that maybe tonight will be better.