Any advice or thoughts welcome . . .

[mumofalice]

Hello

This is my first post on the Toddler Sleep board  - when did my baby grow up is what I want to know???

I posted this last week on an ongoing (but now out-of-date!) thread - Alice is now just over 14 months which is why I've been 're-directed' here.

Apologies if the post doesn't make a huge amount of sense but I'm just copying and pasting to save time . . . sorry.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice then I would appreciated them - as you can probably see there are no 'major' issues - am just wondering whether I should be heading for that 1 nap.

Here goes . . .

Hi there lovely ladies   

Ang - thanks for thinking of me and popping back on. 

Things are okay - and nowhere near as bad as I thought they were going to turn out when I last posted   I just felt so sad that I'd ended up with an OT LO when we'd worked so hard to get out of that cycle in the first place. 

Alice is now at the childminder 3 days a week from 9.15 to 5.15. She's settled SO much better than I'd anticipated (I'm such a pessimist  ) and I think it's actually doing her the world of good as she's a bit 'braver' in social situations. Don't get me wrong - she's still a touchy little soul, bless her   - but she doesn't burst into tears if anyone other than DH or I talks to her, in fact she sometimes flashes her 6 teeth (yes, still only 6!!) 

The childminder tries to stick with my nap times as much as she can - Alice usually goes down for her 1st nap at 11am (after 4 hrs A time) and for a catnap at 3.45. At home I will generally wake her after 1.5 hrs from the first nap - and by 4.30pm at the latest from her catnap if she hasn't woken herself.

She doesn't seem to sleep as long at the childminders - on average 45-60 mins for her 1st nap (sometimes just over an hour) and usually only 30 mins or so for the catnap - but I think she's just happier and more comfortable at home and therefore sleeps longer - does that make sense?

Anyway . . . we had our first 45 min nap in ages the other day (when at home) - which made me think that we might need to start thinking about extending her A time a bit. The only thing is that I have quite a hard time keeping her up for 4 hours anyway  . The day she had a 45 min nap she woke up cranky (still tired I'm sure) but she just couldn't resettle. I shortened her 2nd A time and put her down after 3.5 hrs at 3.15 - I had to wake her at 4.30. So she caught up on her sleep later in the day.

Alice has (along with DH and I ) been full of cold and had a horrible cough over the last week or so and has seemed to almost need more sleep. I've been waking her in the morning at 7 to start the day. On Saturday (when I started typing this  ) I gave her just over 4 hrs A time in the morning and we just couldn't wake her from her first nap after 1.5 hrs - she was completely sparko and even DH talking to her and tickling her nose wasn't doing anything. So . . . I decided to let her sleep and see when she woke herself (thinking it would be another 15 mins or so) - she woke an hour later after a HUGE 2.5 hr nap and even then seemed a bit cranky - think that was more down to hunger tho  . We had been swimming and running errands in the morning so maybe she was more tired due to her busy morning - but I had no idea she could nap for so long.

It was nearly 2pm when she woke up so I decided to try and get her to bedtime without a catnap as she'd slept for so long - I thought she would have to go down a bit early but in the end it was only about 10 mins before her usual time - so she'd had 5 hrs A time  .

Am not sure that Alice is ready for 1 nap - or even starting the transition TBH - but she did manage fine that day. I know that during the transition that sometimes you might have to juggle between 2 naps and 1 nap per day.

Would love to know what you think about a couple of things . . .

1) do you think I should keep waking her after 1.5 hrs in the morning - or should I leave her to sleep as long as she wants and then play it by ear as to whether she needs a catnap later (ie depending on how long her first nap was and what time she woke)

2) should I continue to wake her in the morning at 7am or leave her to wake of her own accord - that would then impact on the time of the 1st nap anyway - on the days she goes to the childminders I probably would have to wake her . . .

3) should the cut off point stay at 4.30pm for a 7pm bedtime?

Hoping I've made some sort of sense 

Thanks for listening to me again   And I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you get a chance.

Berni x

[Benz]

Hi mumo...My LO is 14mths and is on one nap...I don;t really know what to or how to advise u but maybe if i give u a brief of my LO routine it maybe would help u?...

wake btw 6:30-7:30
awake time min of 4-5 hours
nap around 11am btw 45min-2hours (note:if my lo goes down at 11am for his nap then i will try to get him to take 1.5-2 hours,if he goes down at noon he'll be ok with 45min-hour nap, but either way i always  make sure he's naps doest pass 1pm otherwise he wont go to sleep 'til 10:30 earliest!!)
dinner 5-5:30
bath 6-630 (part of whinning down..in bed by 7:30..hopefully sleep no later than 8:30)

He's going through some teething at the moment and we are also trying to get him to sleep independantly...

I think u might need to extend the am A time and whether or not to cut out the afternoon nap will depends on how ur LO copes with a longer pm A time...

[Purplecattypants]

How are things atm Berni?

Sorry you didnt get more replies.....if you have anymore qu's perhaps post them here and we can take a look? 

[mumofalice]

Hello again . . . I'm back 

Ang - lovely of you to pop back on once again to see how I was doing - no need for you to apologies for the lack of replies me dear, it's not your fault. Once again tho I have to apologise for not getting back to you sooner . . . but for some reason I thought I might not have to - what was I thinking!! 

So here is the story so far . . .

After I started this post I just decided to go with the flow and stick with 2 naps for as long as poss - this seems to be the advice given.

When Alice is at the childminder she still naps twice a day (usually 45-60 min naps - sometimes a bit longer, but not very often). Alice has been sleeping from 7-7/7.30 for quite some time now (after all our hard work previously  ) - we've had the odd pre 7am EW, which usually occurred after a day with the childminder. My 'theory' was that she was waking early due to being slightly OT from the previous day - sometimes she'd manage to go back to sleep, other days we'd adjust our day to fit.

So things were going pretty well really. Just before Christmas Alice was quite poorly (the cough and cold she'd been fighting for ages finally got the better of her) and she was sleeping for England. I'm talking 7pm to 8.30/9.00am - I kept checking to make sure she was okay!! She was also having a nap of at least 2 hours a day and sometimes up to 3 hours  For some reason I thought that we might just get away without all the heartache of a 2-1 transition - but I was (of course) mistaken 

Once Alice was over her illness we reverted back to our 2 naps a day pattern - on the odd day (maybe after a bit of a lie-in or swimming, etc) she would have a 1 nap day. My 'rule' was that if she woke before 2.30pm from her nap she would need a bit of a cat nap to get her thru til bedtime as she still only seems to manage 4-4.5 hours of A time - and you know how difficult it can be with a Touchy LO who gets OT  I still wake her at 4.30pm so that we keep bedtime at 7pm.

Alice will be 17 months next week and has just started walking and has just got her 7th tooth - she's a bit of a late starter at most things, bless her!! She's always been on the high end of sleep needs hence me treading very carefully with catnaps, etc to avoid the OT monster. However, I now think that she's heading towards the 2-1 transition - we've had EWs of 6/615 for the past few days - I know it's not terribly early but this is how the EW cycle that I got stuck in all those months ago first started - creeping back from 7/7.30 to 4.45/5.00 

She's still not fighting naps or bedtime (tho she has started 'talking' herself to sleep - if that's classed as fighting?) but I'm thinking the EWs could be a sign that she's ready. Yesterday she woke around 6.00 and chatted on and off til I got her at 6.40 (I usually refuse to go in til 7am even tho I lay awake - but I my excuse is that I'm giving her time to resettle if she needs to  ). I wanted to try and keep her up till 10.45/11 - slightly longer A time I know, but was hoping for 1 long nap. We went to walk the dogs at 10am to keep her occupied but that failed miserably  by 10.20 she was completely zonked out - so much so that I took her home (left DH and the dogs!) and managed to take her out of the back pack, remover her hat, mittens, boots, snowsuit and put her in a grobag and in her cot without her stirring - I don't think I've ever known her so fast asleep!! She slept for 2 hours - which meant she was awake before 12.30 and there was no way I would have tried to make her get to bedtime without a catnap. Put her down at 4 for 30 mins and she didn't want to wake up then  She was in bed at 6.45 (only 15 mins early) as she was very cranky.

I was hoping for a later start today as she's with the childminder and therefore probably won't have a decent amount of daytime sleep - but she woke at just after 6am again 

Any advice on which direction to head would be much appreciated - cos I really don't want these EWs to return to those So-Early-They-Are-Almost-Night-Wakings!! Nor do I want to get into a vicious circle of OT.

TIA. Berni x

[Purplecattypants]

Hello lovely!

Great to hear from you  Not sure I can be of much help....we have been through the dreaded 2-1 TWICE!!! We are firmly on one nap now though thank goodness 

I think the general advice if lo is having EW's in to shorten the AM nap and push it back. As was the case when they were younger, the morning nap helps them make up for lost night sleep. So if she is having 2hrs in the morning, it will contribute to the ew the next day etc.

So, do you think it would work if you started pushing the morning nap slightly later (very slowly, obviously!), and waking her after 45 mins or less, then letting her have a good nap in the arvo? She will most probably need a shorter A time before the next nap if you shorten her AM one...perhaps 3 hrs or so.

Congrats on the walking! Bless her 

 

[mumofalice]

Hi Ang - how you doing lovely lady?

Thanks for the advice me dear - sometimes I don't think I can see the woods for the trees  It makes sense (now that you've pointed it out  ) that when Alice has a long morning nap that she's catching up on night time sleep . . . my only worry was that I didn't really want to wake her as you know how Touchy she can be and she does like her sleep.

We've tried it a couple of times with the short morning nap and a longer arvo nap - and sometimes she's okay other days she seems OT - but it's more difficult now to have consistency as she's with the childminder.

She's woken up early (between 5.45 and 6.15  ) the past 2 mornings but I haven't rushed in - yesterday morning she 'moaned' on and off for about 30-40 mins before dropping back off - I ended up waking her just after 7.30!! She had a nap of 45 mins in the morning (I woke her) and then a 2nd nap of 45-60 mins later in the day (we were out and about visiting HV, etc and she dropped off in the car & I transferred her to cot on return) - I woke her at 4.45pm as I'm very wary of letting her sleep past 4.30pm and I put her down at 6.30pm due to the short naps. This morning I heard her chatting between 5.45 and 6.00 but she seemed to go back off quite quickly - she didn't make a peep til 7.50  Am not sure if I should've woken her up earlier but she's with the childminder today and is highly unlikely to get her full amount of naps IYKWIM - I do think she tends to get OT quite quickly. She was an absolute pleasure to be around this morning (has been very whingey of late) and I can't help thinking it's cos she'd had a good long sleep in - I could be very wrong tho . . .

This was only going to be a quick post - and as usual I'm waffling on!! We're going on our jollies on Saturday for a week - so am just going to go with the flow as far as sleep is concerned - when we come back am going to start doing short AM nap and long PM nap as much as poss 

Congrats on the walking! Bless her 

I can't believe it's taken her so long TBH - she was on her feet at 5 months and has been cruising forever!! It's too cute - she's already trying to run 

Hope you and the lovely Josh are well - how's J's barnet doing? Alice is still lacking in the hair dept - tho there is more of it, it's very hard to see cos she's so fair 

Right . . . must get on and start getting orgnaised for my hols

Berni x

[Purplecattypants]

We are good here thanks! 

I hear you on waking a Touchy bub....I avoid it like the plague, but sometimes I have no choice...if J sleeps more than 2hrs for his nap in the day he will have an EW the next day as he's had enough sleep, so I know which i'd rather! Talk about grumpy though 

We went through a phase about a month ago before we switched to 2 nap where J would do the same as Alice, wake early, chat for a while then drift back off. Now he's just on one nap we don;t get that anymore! But I know it's not an option for you to do that just yet. Before we switched, we were doing a 30min AM nap, and 1.5 hr pm. Towards the end I cut the AM to as little as 15 mins but that always seemed to backfire and he got OT. Eventually he started refusing the morning nap so we just went to one and everything improved 100 fold, now he is doing 1 2hr nap and 12hrs+ at night 

I think if you're ever going to get to one nap you don't have much choice other than to shorten her AM nap, but as you say she likes her sleep so you will need to tread carefully and not be as drastic as we were - I had to do 30mins max AM otherwise he would refuse the PM nap altogether!

So how is it going? TBH even with shortening the AM nap we still had ew's for quite a while, i'm not sure they will stop for you until she is on 1 nap solidly. But knowing little A that will be quite some time, so you can but try!

Josh and his barnet are good thanks! He had a pretty drastic haircut a few weeks ago, curls pretty much gone, but after just 2 weeks they are growing back already! He must have super-fast growing hair like his dad  He started walking just after his 1st birthday so is running around like a loon now, LOVES climbing things, and is starting to say some more recognisable words (one of which is boobies LOL!). Am still BF morning and night, he does love his Bitty 

Let me know how you're getting on 

ps where are you going on your hols? Dead jealous here, missed our yearly snowboarding trip with friends for the 2nd year running! Can't wait until we can take J and teach him to board 

[mumofalice]

Hi there

Thought it was about time I popped back with an update - tho it's not much different 

I went with the flow on holiday - Alice ended up going back to 3 naps a day as dinner was late and therefore I gave her a late nap to make it thru to a later bedtime. To be fair she coped really well with all the changes to her 'routine' - including sharing a room with us for the first time since she was 12 weeks old 

It's so great you know what I mean about waking a Touchy LO - they certainly aren't happy about being disturbed are they? LOL

So . . . we've been trying 30 min naps in the AM and a longer nap in the PM. It's a bit hit and miss TBH but am going to stick with it - and the childminder is following it as much as poss. I haven't been limiting the PM nap just yet, but it varies between 1 hr 15 mins and over 2 hours - depending on whether A is with me or not, what time she woke in the morning, etc, etc, etc.

The first night we got back from hols A slept from 7 to 7.15 - I was over the moon as I thought we might be back on track - but every day since has been pre 7am (anywhere between 5.20 and 6.30). I still don't go in until 7am (bad mum  ) unless she needs me - but more often than not she just chats to herself. Heard her yesterday at 6.20 - I went in the shower and when I got out she'd stopped talking, I went to her door and could hear her snoring. She slept til after 8 then  . She had one nap in the afternoon (cos of late start) for 2.5 hours. She went to bed as usual at 7pm and is chatting to herself as we 'speak' (woke around 6.15).

So . . . am wondering if I need to limit her PM nap to 1.5 hours as well as 30 mins for the morning nap. 2 hours just doesn't seem like enough daytime sleep for A - but maybe I'm just being a bit too cautious - Touchy LO who is prone to OT is something to be cautious of 

Can't believe you've cut J's curls off (tho by the sound of things they will have returned by now!!) - can't imagine A having a haircut for at least another year  She's got more hair at the back now, but is still lacking on top - she's basically trying to make the mullet fashionable again!!

J sounds like he's a proper little boy now - even developing an interest in boobs - PMSL that he says boobies already!! Congratulations on still BF - I weaned Alice at around 13 months - for someone who loved her milk she wasn't in the slightest bit bothered and I thought it was going to be really tough - think it was harder for me!

Now that A has found her feet it's hard to keep up with her - she's trying to run already and is into everything (time to move things up a level or two  ) She seemed to really turn into a proper little person the week we went away - she had a HUGE space to move around in which I think made her walk more (less furniture to walk between) and she stood up on her own one day as she didn't have anything nearby to pull herself up on - and she's never looked back.

Not sure that you will want to know where we went on holiday - but lovely to hear that you're a fellow boarder  We went to a tiny little village in Switzerland where I spent 4 or 5 winter seasons (and where I met DH). We haven't been to the snow for a good few years (for various reasons) and I've been itching to go every year as I don't feel happy til I've had my mountain fix  It was a different experience with a LO (nowhere near as much apres-ski LOL) - but we had a fab time. We had some friends with us - so we took it in turns to look after A (who loved eating snow more than anything!!) which meant DH and I even got to board together a couple of times  Like you (with J) I can't wait til she's big enough to take part herself - imagine how cute they will be 

Right, had better go and jump in the shower - A has talked herself back to sleep again, bless. How lovely of her to chat long enough to wake me and then drift back off herself 

Bye for now 

[mumofalice]

P.S. forgot to ask what your day looks like now - ie what time does J have his nap