How long do I "ignore" him?

[skeckie]

My almost 1 yr old has a problem with winding back up when I put him in his crib for naps.  Sarah2 had a sleeping methods post saying:

Toddler pd -
Do your bedtime routine, lay your child in his crib and stand back. When he cries, go to him, lay him down and stand back regardless of whether or not he is still crying. Repeat as necessary. If he is laying down crying but does not stand, go to him and comfort him briefly. If he is not crying but only stands, ignore him.

But my son will either play and play as long as I'm in his room with him and then becomes overtired and finds it hard to settle at all; or he will start biting (and trying to bite off parts of his nice wooden crib, in which case I intervene because I don't want him ruining his teeth or his nice bed. - and NO, he's not hungry!)  Besides, that, I can't spend another hour or more sitting with him in his room while he winds himself back down. What usually happens is that he starts crying after a while or I stop him from biting his crib, or after a while he throws his paci and blanket overboard and I won't return it to him.  But when I comfort him and return his items and do PD he starts all over again with the standing up and playing.

Also, if you are suggesting I try WalkInWalkOut (which I am just learning about) how do I know this is going to be safe to do since he has always been a terrible sleeper and doesn't have independent sleep firmly established yet?  {He has been doing PD with very improved success over the last 3 weeks but this is an all new thing for him.}  Also, what is the difference between WIWO and the Ferber method?  Is it that you are listening and responding and not going by the clock for reassurance?

[nike]

Hi Skeckie.  I see you're without a reply so I'll give it a go

What's your nap structure like, can I ask?  If you can give me an approx wake time in the a.m., nap time and bedtime, I may be able to help.  At 12 months it might be possible your LO (if not already) is working towards dropping from 2 to 1, so it might just be a timing issue.  Or maybe teeth? 

Personally, I wouldn't just lay him in his crib and stand back!  I'd wind him down for sleep with your sleepy cues (give comfort item or dummy, tell him it's sleepy time, walk to his room, close blinds - whatever you normally do) and put him to bed and walk out.  Give him a good chance to settle and then commence WI/WO.  But I think if you get the timing right, he should self settle pretty quickly if he's otherwise been doing this in the past.  I always found with both my boys that if they started playing up at nap or bedtime and they weren't sick or teething, it was probably that our routine needed a bit of tweaking somewhere along the line.

FWIW, in regards "standing back" - I would personally just hightail it out of there   If I stood around in my boys rooms at sleep time, there wouldn't be any sleeping going on iykwim

HTH

[sherip]

I agree, you should do the bedtime wind down routine, then lay him in bed with his soother and blanket, give kisses or whatever and physically leave the room. It will be harder for him to wind down with you there. When he cries, listen for a minute before rushing back in (doing walk in/walk out). It will depend on the 'type' of cry before entering. There's a difference in a cry where he is scared and needs you than a winding down, getting ready for sleep cry. You should be able to tell the difference after a few days by just waiting and listening. My guy used to chew on his crib, too. There was splinters sticking out and everything. Do you have a monitor? I used to listen closely to it to hear 'chewing sounds' and I would go in to intervene but giving him his soother. I am assuming this is the safety issue you were refering to?

[skeckie]

hi ladies, thank you so much for the reply.  i also got lots of help in the naps forum which i had started before realizing that my baby is now a "toddler"!!! how did that happen?!?

things are going really good this week thanks to the routine tweaking advice.  in fact last night and today for naps i was able to put him down and walk right out and he actually went to sleep!  i almost can't believe it!

knock on wood, because i truly hope it lasts.  night wakings are still 2 or 3 times a night though.  he's in bed from about 8pm til 7 or 7:15 am if i have to wake him up.  do those night wakings ever go away?  or should i just be glad he is staying in his own bed that long and not staying up too super long during the night?  (right now he usually goes right back to sleep when i put him from standing to laying down with his paci and blanket, but about once a night he's been awake for 20 min or so while i have to wait with him to fall asleep.)  {however, like i said above, last night i started high-tailing it out of there and so far so good}

[nike]

Glad he's settling better for both naps and sleep

Night wakings can be a sign of OT.  8 p.m. sounds like a really late bedtime to me, especially for his age.  I'm assuming he's still on 2 naps a day at nearly 12 months old.  From memory, DS used to wake about the same time as your DS, nap at approx 9 a.m. and then again at about 2 p.m.  Even if he slept 2 hours til 4 p.m., he'd still be in bed for the night by 7.  He didn't handle a long A time in the afternoon.  Can you let us know his nap times and length?  The clue might be in there somewhere. 

At 12 months old he's due for his first set of molars, if he doesn't already have them.  This could be another reason for the NW.

right now he usually goes right back to sleep when i put him from standing to laying down with his paci and blanket

Is he learning to stand or walk by any chance?  NW can occur when they are learning a new skill.  You may just have to ride it out in that case.

but about once a night he's been awake for 20 min or so while i have to wait with him to fall asleep

Personally I wouldn't wait with him to fall asleep!  If he's not sick or teething, and you've waited the appropriate time to respond (based on the type of cry of course) I'd offer him a little comfort, preferably while he's still in his cot, and then leave again.  Both my boys at different stages would settle while I was in the room but then when I attempted to leave they'd turn on the waterworks again   I used to walk out and then go to the bathroom or get myself a drink of water and most times they'd settle themselves.  You could give it a try.

[skeckie]

his schedule is:
7am up and milk
8 breakfast (solids)
10 snack
10:30 morning nap (usually about 45 min)
12:30pm lunch (solids) followed by milk
1:45 or so afternoon nap (usually 1 hr 15 min but sometimes can get him to go back down after 20 min or so of rocking)
3:30 snack
6:00 supper (solids)
7:00 bath
7:30 milk and bed routine
8:00 goodnight

i'd have a pretty hard time getting the family dinner on the table for my DH (who usually gets home at 6 or 6:30) and get DS to bed before 8pm.  but if you think it would make a diff i can try it somehow!  i just thought 8pm to 7am was pretty good since babycenter.com says a one year old should get 11 to 12 hrs at night plus two one-hour naps a day.  i thought i was pretty much on track! 

besides that, he is WAY improved over his 20 min naps he used to take and his waking every 2 hrs at night.  we are going two steps forward and one step back, but we are making progress!

what do you think?

[nike]

I did notice there's 3.5 hours A time before first nap, then only 2.5 til 2nd nap, then a whopping 5 hours til bedtime   How does he cope with that long stretch? 

I also found with both my DS's at that age that their A time was shorter in between wake-up and first nap, about 2.5 hours max.  It's possible he could only be sleeping 45 mins here as he's OT.  Then the NW's could be because of the OT compounding again in the afternoon.

Could you try moving the first nap to about 9.30, when hopefully he might be rested enough to sleep longer (I know, sounds counter-productive!) and then second nap around 2-ish, aiming for a bedtime around 7/7.30?  I realise what you say about getting dinner on the table but is it do-able to give him an earlier dinner and earlier bedtime?

I'm certainly no expert but I would think 13 hours was on the lightish side of sleep for a 12 month-er   DS2 was taking 2 x 2 hour naps during the day at  12 months but he always loved his sleep

[sherip]

When my little guy was that age, he woke about 6:30/7:00, napped around 9:30(usually 1 1/2 - 2hrs), went for 2nd nap around 2:30/3:00 (napped about abother 1 1/2hrs), then was in bed at 8:00.

[skeckie]

the reason i had him on that schedule is because in the naps forum they thought i should go
that way, however i'll go back to a 9:30 or 10am morning nap and a 2:00 afternoon nap and
see what happens.

but, since that is pretty much what i was doing before, what do i do if/when he still continues
to wake up at night?  he is waking about 3 times a night but not staying awake long.  as long as
we go in and lay him back down with his blankie he will generally lay down and drift back off to
sleep.  once in a while he will put up a fight if we leave the room though.