Author Topic: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline MackMum

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How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« on: September 25, 2008, 04:01:01 am »
Hi, I don't know if this is meant to be here or in the Activity board.

Anyway, I'm going nuts and around in circles trying to figure out my DS2. He's 10.5weeks old and I'm pretty sure he's chronically over tired. Well, most of the time I think that and then i think that I must be wrong cos how can he be 2.5months old and being up for 60mins is more than he can handle???

When he was born and for weeks after he litterally only seemed to handle 20-25mins - sometimes less time than it took to feed him. So he probably got OT from the start because of that. Gradually it extended to 30-40mins. A couple of weeks ago I was going mental with the 45min naps really setting in for good so I started to wonder if he was actually under tired. It didn't seem to matter if I put him down super early or kept him up a bit, he's pretty much always hard to get to sleep. And since about 6weeks only naps 45mins.

So last week I deliberately kept him up for 50mins each A time, which was often 10mins after he'd yawn for the first time. He seemed to get a bit worse which made me think it probably was OT after all (sleeping well at night though) and I figured this is ridiculous that he's over 2months and not even coping with 50mins. So this week I decided, well, I may as well push him to 60mins since he's OT anyway. He often seems to yawn at the 45-50min mark now that I'm keeping him up for 55-60mins. But sometimes he can yawn after 25-35mins! While he's up he's a pretty happy chappy - with DS1 I always knew when he was getting OT cos he'd start grizzling. But DS2 is just about always perky - he just seems to get jerkier and stare more.

I've been hoping that if we can stick with this he'll gradually mature to handle the longer A time and also hopefully get easier to put down for a sleep. Am I right in thinking this? I'm just really hesitant to go back to trying to put him down when he first yawns cos he seems to yawn all the time - and I can't see how it's normal for a 2.5month old to only cope with 45mins awake. It's so hard to make even a 3hr EASY work and I keep wondering if I've got it completely wrong cos everyone else with similar age babies seem to be working at getting them to handle 1.5-2hrs not barely 1!!! We could do with a support thread for babies that can't handle much A time!

So can you give me some advice on how to handle the OT and get him through it? What's the process for getting them rested? it seems so crazy when he sleeps so well over night. And I keep A times as low-key as possibly, just lying on the couch or baby seat watching the world - no TV or bright toys, and I try not to do too much chatting to him in his face in case that wears him out too.

Here's our routine:

5-6am feed - seems v hungry initially but doesn't drink a huge amount
straight back down to sleep without nappy change. Can be hard to resettle - especially if closer to 6am. Usually has 45min nap, wakes and grizzles a bit but usually resettles for another 45mins or so.

8amish feed
9am down for nap. 45mins. Spend the rest of the time trying to get him back to sleep. Very fitfull. mostly naps but in the morning has more chance of settling for another 45mins than he does later in day. If I get him up he seems buggered and yawns every couple of minutes - just seems to tire him out more than all that grizzling and crying napping fitfully in his cot.

11am feed
12 - down for nap - same as above but less chance of another 45 - mostly just 10-20min naps. often with help of dummy (last resort) which has to be replugged every few mins.

2pm feed
3pm - as above but more reliance on dummy to get him through last 30-45mins of nap time

5pm feed
6pm walk in frontpack - settles fairly well for 35min nap

6.40ish awake, bath with mum (in dim room, not too long)
7.15ish feed
7.30-45 bedtime (straight after feed). Settles well.

He sleeps on his front (no chance of getting him down on his back). winddown is 5mins walk around being held against my shoulder and sung 10green bottles (weird I know, but it's repettitive and simple and you can stop anywhere through it  :)). And some Sh/pat once he's in his cot. I've been concientious about avoiding AP - the dummy is last resort cos he spits it out repettively and this wakes him up, so he rarely settles into a deep sleep with it. I always put him down awake. All his naps except the 6pm one are in his cot.
Anna


Offline MackMum

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 04:11:24 am »
I should add that although I think he does 45min naps - he can settle into them so fitfully that I don't always know if he's done 45 or just two 20min naps back to back. Some fitufl naps he seems to wake every 10mins  :'( It's exhausting just watching the poor thing battle away - even while grizzling his eyes are shut and he can stop mid cry and seem dead asleep. Hence I'm hesitant to get him up after 45mins for some A time and try again a few mins later - his secondnext nap after a few mins A time isn't any more restful than if I just left him in his cot. I pat/shh as much as I can (have to duck in and out cos I'm  home with toddler) but it doesn't seem to soothe or help him all that much (it worked better a couple of weeks ago) - i suspect cos he's too OT  :(
Anna


Offline marensmama

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 06:13:02 am »
Hi there.  Hmm... have you done the temperament quiz with him yet?  Is he spirited?  Is he swaddled?  When he does nap, is he in his crib?  Room nice and dark?  No mobiles or dangly things?  Does he show any symptoms of reflux?  (I just wonder, since he sleeps on his tummy, settles well for upright nap, and fusses through his naps.)  Sorry it's more questions than answers, just some thoughts as to what's going on to help us get to the bottom of it.  :)
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline MackMum

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 22:43:29 pm »
I did the temperament quiz a few weeks ago - bit hard to tell at such a young age but he's mostly textbook. Maybe a bit touchy when it comes to sleep though?
He's swaddled at night, but not during the day - I've tried but it doesn't make it any easier for him to transition and since he sleeps on his front I'd rather not swaddle. He's on infant gaviscon because I suspected mild reflux - he's happy most of the time but we were having very fussy feeds. Still have fussy feeds (forcefull letdown) but not quite so bad.

His room is very dark - I put tinfoil over the windows. and I make sure he's not too hot or cold and I don't use any mobiles or dangly things in his cot - or even during A time at this age for fear of OS. Yep, every nap he takes except for the evening walk and the odd outing (twice a week at the moment) are in his crib.

I forgot to mention that overnight he gets a dreamfeed (formula) at 10.30pm and then sleeps through until about 5.30-6.30am. I was giving him a small feed then and then putting him back to bed straight away but this morning (we have clocks going forward this weekend) I got him up for the day when he woke at 6.30am. He managed to resettle for another good 45mins or more after his first 45min nap this morning. His second A time of the day I watched closely and his first yawn was straight after his feed at 20mins from wakeup, then the odd one throughout his A time. So yawns don;t seem to be much of an indicator of when to put him down. I find it so hard to gague when he needs his sleep!!!
Anna


Offline marensmama

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 04:42:57 am »
I wonder if his first A time is too short (counting that first A time as the 8 am wake-up).  It's only an hour, most LOs his age can handle 75-80 minutes A time.  So he only has a 45 minute nap being UT, and that sets him up for the rest of the day to be OT since a 45 minute nap is not restorative.  Can you try a longer A time tomorrow and see what happens with that first nap?
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline MackMum

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 20:38:29 pm »
Hi Nicole,
Thanks for your thoughts. I've had no internet for a few days so only got your message yesterday! Anyway, our clocks changed this weekend so I had to gradually tweak his schedule to prepare him for it and working toward 3.5hr easy since he doesn't seem to like being fed as often as every 2.5-3hrs. Went well and we're now doing this:

7 or 7.30am wake & feed (he often wakes about 6.30 but I give him dummy to get him to sleep 1 more cycle)
8-8.30 am (1hr later) nap.

10.30 feed
11.30 (50-60min after get up) nap.

2.00 feed
3.00 (50-60min after get up) nap.

5.00 feed
6.00 cat nap of 35-45min (with dummy)

6.50ish bath
7.10pm feed
7.30pm bed

10.45pm DF (working at bringing it back to 10.30pm without upsetting morning)


Now for the past few days he only seems to sleep for 35mins when I put him down for his naps (even first one of the day). sometimes resettles after some mantra crying but often I need to use dummy and keep replugging till next feed. I thought 35min was OT so why is he doing that after a great night sleep and only 60mins 1st A time?

Today as per your advice I kept him up for 70mins. He settled great but only for 40mins and has been hard to resettle - will probably have to go in with dummy in a minute (I still never use the dummy when I first put him down for his sleeps (except catnap at 6pm so I'm sure it's not a prop).

So I'm stumped. OT or UT??? maybe I'll try for 65-70mins A time for rest of today (instead of usual 55-60)and then 75-80mins A time tomorrow morning in case these 35min naps are UT and 70mins just wasn't long enough. ???
Anna


Offline marensmama

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 04:18:26 am »
Sorry, I was out of town for a couple days.  How are things going now?
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline kezzi78

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 19:41:34 pm »
i totally symapthise, i have a 10.5 week old too and a toddler. Mine also wont nap during the day so if you solve this problem would love to know how. What is the temperant quiz??? I just think my baby is oh so unhappy and not liking it here very much
Amelie Grace's mum

Offline MackMum

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Re: How to cure chronic OT in 10wk old
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 20:03:29 pm »
Hi guys. Had stint with no internet which sucked. Anyway, back online now :o)

No progress to report alas. He's been a consistent 35min napper every time I put him down for a nap. Mixed results at getting him back to sleep with dummy after he's woken. Sometimes (if he doesn't knock it out) he'll do 45 or even 1.5hrs to finish the nap. Other times I'm replugging him every 15mins and he's just getting tired and cranky with it all (me too!!).

Have tried pushing him to 70mins A time but it just made him harder to put down and he still woke 35mins later. Ditto with putting him down at 45-50mins A time. Not that it's a peice of cake at 60mins either. Nothing seems to work!!! All results in 35min nap Argh!!!

My only thread of hope is that last weekend when we were in middle of shifting his routine to 3.5hrs, both days for his first two naps of the day he resettled after his 35mins and went on to sleep another 1.5hrs with no dummy!!! (he was in the frontpack or pram for his 3rd nap of the day as we went out both sat and sun). It may have been that he was groggy with his cold and that helped him sleep (no meds), maybe the residual cough/cold is what's giving him 35min naps - I can only hope... but I'm holding on to all hope that he is able to transition into another sleep cycle on his own - he just needs to mature a little more to do it consistently.

The rest of the time I worry that because I don't have the luxury of time (that I did with DS1) to help him extend his naps with pressure at the jolts that he'll never learn. Can someone please reassure me that this happens naturally anyway even if I don't help him?? maybe I should do another thread.
Anna